All due respect, I cannot embrace your conclusions. Not sure how much you want to engage on this. I can do a zoom or phone call but there are too many interconnected issues to resolve this via written exchange.
All due respect, I cannot embrace your conclusions. Not sure how much you want to engage on this. I can do a zoom or phone call but there are too many interconnected issues to resolve this via written exchange.
I meant no disrespect, I know this is an unpopular issue, hopefully we can discuss it in another form later. Thanks for replying. Correction, what I should have said is it’s unpopular with some, but in reality, veganism is growing and gaining more popularity all the time.
You are not willing to or prepared to accept that the science is settled on Animal Agriculture being utterly unsustainable. That Animal Agriculture is a huge contributor to Greenhouse Gas production, is the largest spoiler of fresh water, and the largest culprit to deforestation.
The ethical consideration and morality of killing another living being to satisfy selfish desires is not a part of the equation.
So, if beings from somewhere in the Universe, beings that consider themselves superior to human beings, find Earth and visit here with the intention of satisfying their hunger with humans, you are okay with the sock being on the other shoe.
The last film I viewed to speak to this whole human eating issue was "They're Trying To Kill Us" . . . . ought to be required viewing for every adult.
I watched the clip. Thank you for posting this! I donated about 12 vegan cookbooks to my local libraries, one called Afro-Vegan that discusses the concept of food justice. Very important film.
I’ve seen part of Cowspiracy, saw all of Chris Hedges’ interview about which should still be available free on YouTube. Being vegan for so long I always look at films relating to the subject and protecting the environment, thanks for mentioning them here.
One of the scenes in that movie (They're Trying To Kill Us) features a octogenarian hog farmer. He's quite comfortable and candid about his "trade". I'll paraphrase his spoken thoughts:
I used to kill people when I was a tobacco farmer, now I'm killing people farming hogs.
I appreciate you adding your comment to this exchange Freeman. Hope you’ll check out my comment on the work of Animal Rebellion on Chris’ latest article and look at their recent YouTube video.
You were more tactful than I was responding to Hart who I was having a frustrating discussion. I still can’t leave well enough alone, my latest online discussion ended up bad, but I think you got across your ideas well when discussing climate and animal farming. It’s still shocking to me what people will say just like the hog farmer you mentioned.
Between his SubStack and all he had to say along with his posturing; my best guess is that he is a professional industry troll, either with Ag, Food, Big Oil, or a Lobbyist that works for all of the above and more.
I can’t find your comment about your response about the science regarding livestock farming but wanted to ask you, can you explain to me in a way most people can understand where the flaws are in coming to a conclusion that large scale livestock farming is unsustainable? Another thought to consider about continuing this course of continuing to consume large amount of meat and other animal products is, wouldn’t it be easier on workers to process plants rather than stand in an inch or more of blood and look at corpses all day, when it has been proven eating this is not a biological necessity? Except in times of desperation of course.
From an ecological standpoint, it’s important to ask where your food comes from. Do you know where your food comes from?
Plant based versus meat is not a meaningful distinction. There are too many variations in each theme. Either can be destructive and either can be regenerative.
If you plow a field, this process kills thousands of animals per acre, actually millions of animals per acre.
I am not thrilled that an animal has to die to feed me, but where does vegan food come from? Is it ethical? Sustainable? Regenerative?
Annual crops grown in tilled soil and/or grown with chemical pesticides and fertilizers are terrible for the environment, including lots of animals.
I feel better eating meat, milk and eggs where the animals are humanely raised. I consume meat with sadness, respect and gratitude.
And I try to eat meat that was raised locally, regeneratively and humanely. That part is very important. But it’s a growth area. Progress not perfection.
From an ecological standpoint, it’s important to ask where your food comes from. Do you know where your food comes from?
Plant based versus meat is not a meaningful distinction. There are too many variations in each theme. Either can be destructive and either can be regenerative.
If you plow a field, this process kills thousands of animals per acre, actually millions of animals per acre.
I am not thrilled that an animal has to die to feed me, but where does vegan food come from? Is it ethical? Sustainable? Regenerative?
Annual crops grown in tilled soil and/or grown with chemical pesticides and fertilizers are terrible for the environment, including lots of animals.
I feel better eating meat, milk and eggs where the animals are humanely raised.
I am in support of regenerative agriculture as are you and I respect and appreciate the work you are doing. I certainly don’t want you to feel resentful with my comments, I am sorry if I came off that way.If I could afford it I would eat organic, so I’m far from living all my principles. We can definitely improve welfare for farmed animals but from seeing videos by Earthling Ed or Plant based news, investigations are showing maintaining high welfare standards for farm animals are not reliable. I am not trying to sound morally superior, only trying to offer an idea which I think would be in harmony with your goals and beliefs. It was your concern for the planet which opened the door for me. Veganism like any particular cause is not the be all or end all or the only solution but is an enormous contribution to the world and is better for your health if one has a plant based source of B12, fresh produce, whole grains and beans.
That kind of amazes me, having done this for so long I am used to feeling resented. I am admittedly an extremist. It used to bother me because years ago it seemed like being called that would help you be perceived as dangerous or not worth listening to, now I know they’re right. Even if my ideas don’t cause you to change what or how you eat, it doesn’t detract from the good you’re doing.
Thank you. I respect people who choose to be vegan. Actually my best friend is vegan. He listens respectfully you me and vice versa. I would never consider changing his choices or commitments. My concerns are ecological in nature.
All due respect, I cannot embrace your conclusions. Not sure how much you want to engage on this. I can do a zoom or phone call but there are too many interconnected issues to resolve this via written exchange.
I meant no disrespect, I know this is an unpopular issue, hopefully we can discuss it in another form later. Thanks for replying. Correction, what I should have said is it’s unpopular with some, but in reality, veganism is growing and gaining more popularity all the time.
Of course. Thank you as well.
Allow me the presumption of cutting to the chase.
You are not willing to or prepared to accept that the science is settled on Animal Agriculture being utterly unsustainable. That Animal Agriculture is a huge contributor to Greenhouse Gas production, is the largest spoiler of fresh water, and the largest culprit to deforestation.
The ethical consideration and morality of killing another living being to satisfy selfish desires is not a part of the equation.
So, if beings from somewhere in the Universe, beings that consider themselves superior to human beings, find Earth and visit here with the intention of satisfying their hunger with humans, you are okay with the sock being on the other shoe.
The last film I viewed to speak to this whole human eating issue was "They're Trying To Kill Us" . . . . ought to be required viewing for every adult.
https://www.theyretryingtokillus.com
You wouldn’t survive five minutes in an actual debate.
There's not really anything to "debate".
The ONLY reason you eat meat is to satisfy your selfish desires.
I watched the clip. Thank you for posting this! I donated about 12 vegan cookbooks to my local libraries, one called Afro-Vegan that discusses the concept of food justice. Very important film.
There is a small handful of films that provide a wealth of information about humans and their proclivity for unsustainable practices.
Ice On Fire
Cowspiracy
What The Health
They're Trying To Kill Us
The Age Of Consequences
I’ve seen part of Cowspiracy, saw all of Chris Hedges’ interview about which should still be available free on YouTube. Being vegan for so long I always look at films relating to the subject and protecting the environment, thanks for mentioning them here.
One of the scenes in that movie (They're Trying To Kill Us) features a octogenarian hog farmer. He's quite comfortable and candid about his "trade". I'll paraphrase his spoken thoughts:
I used to kill people when I was a tobacco farmer, now I'm killing people farming hogs.
Wow to say the least.
I appreciate you adding your comment to this exchange Freeman. Hope you’ll check out my comment on the work of Animal Rebellion on Chris’ latest article and look at their recent YouTube video.
You were more tactful than I was responding to Hart who I was having a frustrating discussion. I still can’t leave well enough alone, my latest online discussion ended up bad, but I think you got across your ideas well when discussing climate and animal farming. It’s still shocking to me what people will say just like the hog farmer you mentioned.
Yeah, wrt that?
Da Nile isn't just a river in Egypt. ;-)
I have no investment in 'winning' a contest with someone making up definitions, rules, and alternate realities void of science and fact.
I thought that there was a chance with the guy named Hart but he proved to have nothing but denial.
Between his SubStack and all he had to say along with his posturing; my best guess is that he is a professional industry troll, either with Ag, Food, Big Oil, or a Lobbyist that works for all of the above and more.
..
I can’t find your comment about your response about the science regarding livestock farming but wanted to ask you, can you explain to me in a way most people can understand where the flaws are in coming to a conclusion that large scale livestock farming is unsustainable? Another thought to consider about continuing this course of continuing to consume large amount of meat and other animal products is, wouldn’t it be easier on workers to process plants rather than stand in an inch or more of blood and look at corpses all day, when it has been proven eating this is not a biological necessity? Except in times of desperation of course.
From an ecological standpoint, it’s important to ask where your food comes from. Do you know where your food comes from?
Plant based versus meat is not a meaningful distinction. There are too many variations in each theme. Either can be destructive and either can be regenerative.
If you plow a field, this process kills thousands of animals per acre, actually millions of animals per acre.
I am not thrilled that an animal has to die to feed me, but where does vegan food come from? Is it ethical? Sustainable? Regenerative?
Annual crops grown in tilled soil and/or grown with chemical pesticides and fertilizers are terrible for the environment, including lots of animals.
I feel better eating meat, milk and eggs where the animals are humanely raised. I consume meat with sadness, respect and gratitude.
And I try to eat meat that was raised locally, regeneratively and humanely. That part is very important. But it’s a growth area. Progress not perfection.
From an ecological standpoint, it’s important to ask where your food comes from. Do you know where your food comes from?
Plant based versus meat is not a meaningful distinction. There are too many variations in each theme. Either can be destructive and either can be regenerative.
If you plow a field, this process kills thousands of animals per acre, actually millions of animals per acre.
I am not thrilled that an animal has to die to feed me, but where does vegan food come from? Is it ethical? Sustainable? Regenerative?
Annual crops grown in tilled soil and/or grown with chemical pesticides and fertilizers are terrible for the environment, including lots of animals.
I feel better eating meat, milk and eggs where the animals are humanely raised.
I am in support of regenerative agriculture as are you and I respect and appreciate the work you are doing. I certainly don’t want you to feel resentful with my comments, I am sorry if I came off that way.If I could afford it I would eat organic, so I’m far from living all my principles. We can definitely improve welfare for farmed animals but from seeing videos by Earthling Ed or Plant based news, investigations are showing maintaining high welfare standards for farm animals are not reliable. I am not trying to sound morally superior, only trying to offer an idea which I think would be in harmony with your goals and beliefs. It was your concern for the planet which opened the door for me. Veganism like any particular cause is not the be all or end all or the only solution but is an enormous contribution to the world and is better for your health if one has a plant based source of B12, fresh produce, whole grains and beans.
I am not at all offended by your comments. I am glad we can talk about it.
That kind of amazes me, having done this for so long I am used to feeling resented. I am admittedly an extremist. It used to bother me because years ago it seemed like being called that would help you be perceived as dangerous or not worth listening to, now I know they’re right. Even if my ideas don’t cause you to change what or how you eat, it doesn’t detract from the good you’re doing.
If you want to continue the conversation via Zoom or email let me know.
Thank you. I respect people who choose to be vegan. Actually my best friend is vegan. He listens respectfully you me and vice versa. I would never consider changing his choices or commitments. My concerns are ecological in nature.