So appreciate your reporting. As a 75 year old Jewish grandmother and retired physician, I find you express and represent my sentiments, rage, and grief exactly. Thank you.
I think there is one important difference between the settler colonial project in South Africa that begat apartheid, and the settler colonial project in Israel that gave rise to the two Palestinian Territories in Gaza and the West Bank. That difference is that in South Africa, the labor of the dispossessed Africans was necessary for the apartheid state to function. There was never any question of a genocide of the huge African majority. Certainly they were terrorized, and were subject to hideous violence by the apartheid state. But actual genocide wasn’t an option, as vile as the racism was. In Israel, some Palestinians might have ‘jobs’ which required them to be allowed into Israel, but on a much smaller scale than amongst Africans under the white regime in South Africa. In Israel, murdering or forcibly exiling all Palestinians has been the real agenda from the beginning. Without minimizing the horror of South Africa under Apartheid, I think the Israeli genocidal system has always been different- and worse. Apartheid is a word that has been used to describe it by opponents because, I think, it captures the system’s two-tiered nature and has very correct negative connotations. But, it’s really not negative ENOUGH.
We will now take time to “study more” the “exporting” (ethnic cleansing) surviving starving desperate Palestinians and, after ICC indicted Putin for saving children in war zone, current direct threats and blackmail to ICC for issuing arrests of leadership of apartheid Nazi-Israel:
• After horrible industrial scale slaughter of mostly women and children — US is now looking where to export select (by Israel) starving million+ civilians while “disappearing” male Palestinians.
Very good interview. I just upgraded to paid subscriber, so looking forward to more interviews like this one and more of your writing/reporting. I really wish my country’s government would stop supplying these weapons to Israel just so they can murder more women and children. I have made my voice heard and will continue to do so. I’m sorry I ever supported Trump(don’t now) in that he is no better than Genocide Joe when it comes to Israel. I saw a clip the other night of Hannity and Trump on Fox News talking about how upset they were over the pro Palestine protests on college campuses across America and how we must let Israel do its thing in Gaza. It made me sick to hear this and I’m so glad I ditched Fox News over two years ago. I won’t support any of these two political parties because they are the uniparty when it comes to all these wars and Israel.
Trump is chaos and will be used by the Royalist faction in the US that has led to many of our problems. Jill Stein is not a solution. Chris Hedges made a very fatuous statement in one of his prior posting. He accused Biden of missing a New Deal Opportunity. That was very silly and irresponsible to conflate the circumstances of today with those of FDR.
When I next speak with one of those pathetic liberals who speak of Trump voters with such condescension and hatred I will think of you. They, in their smug isolation, are more rigid and suffocating than most of the people they disdain. I remember when once Cesar Chavez was asked by an associate why he welcomed people from “the other side”, he said: “Because they’ve seen both sides now, and have every reason to be loyal to us.”
Agreed, Chris Hedges sees very clearly the source of disaffection in the American Experience. The Clintons were the greatest betrayers of the American Experience.
Realize that Chris Hedges has no vested interest in the war in Gaza. He simply reports the facts. The NY Times; however, has to appease their backers. The strong Israeli lobby controls their narrative. The ICC wants to charge Israel with genocide and the Israeli response is that proclamation is antisemitism. Enough of Israel’s constant rhetoric. In my opinion, as brutal and sinful as the holocaust was, this is the sole reason the state was granted in 1948 by the UN. There was no consideration for the Palestinians or others living in that part of the world for centuries. The only solution is to have a two state solution where each state governs their own territory and their borders. The US can be part of this solution. If both sides could put aside their hatred and realize that this is the only solution for peace. Put aside everything that has happened as difficult as that may be. “IMAGINE”!
I am of the opinion that a 2 state solution would NOT be wise.
If Israel is going to go on we the people would like to see the Palestinians incorporated into ONE country with Palestinians and Israelis in the Govt. on equal terms.
IF there was to be a 2 state solution the same old shit will happen again.
Yes there should be one country called Palestine for all peoples to live and be a part of as long as they abide by international law. The two state solution is no longer viable imho. The Israelis can’t be trusted to abide by the terms of allowing a sovereign Palestine.
Not to worry. The “two state solution” was not only never seriously pursued, it was a lie designed by the scum governments in the U.S. and Israel to mislead the public in the U.S. Those in Israel knew damned well it was a lie, which explains the out-migration of a significant percentage of sane and decent Israelis over the past couple of decades. Now, even the lie is dead, along with any hope that the genocide can be stopped.
You paint the situation as an either/or dichotomy. It's not. You've been programmed into believing the Palestinians must choose between a fallacious set of limited choices. With all due respect, see my reply to Allan Gnidec above.
BTW, unless you're Palestinian, you're not "we the people". You're only in a position to observe and legally recognize the choice of Palestinians from the perspective of your own State Sovereignty. Further, I don't see how your preference could possibly be legally predicated on Israel's continued State Sovereignty.
I humbly disagree. The Palestinians and Israelis are diametrically opposed in religion and philosophy of life. Whom ever has the majority in ONE country would rule…. an untenable situation
Really? What do you call the police brutality and armed conflicts (I saw plenty of bludgeons being used and one police bullet was found lodge in a University building wall) on U.S. University campuses right now? The impetus for the University uprisings is based on student protests against Isreali apartheid and resulting Palestinian genocide--the cause for which is sectarian based. Based on the facts, I'd have to call this, essentially, a religious war.
Enough of Israel's constant rhetoric? How about reigning in your own rhetoric about continuing the charade of a "two state solution". IMO there doesn't need to be rhetoric about a two state solution because it inextricably ties any feigned rights of Palestinians to the rights of Israelis.
The issue is simply state sovereignty, period. Each State deserves their own. If any State does not have sovereignty over all of their own affairs, then they are not a Sovereign State. Right now, it appears to me that Palestine is an occupied territory with a population under constant siege and threat of systematic genocide. It has been for decades. What other Sovereign State operates like this? That's right; none. So its more than high time that a U.N. cease fire is declared, genocide (and other war crime) perpetrators are tried in an international tribunal having jurisdiction, and the Palestinian people start to enjoy the same rights as do the people of any other sovereign State.
My interpretation of a 2 state solution is indeed as you describe…. Each a sovereign state governing their people and their borders…. a 2 state solution unless I am misinterpreting what that means. I totally agree with you!
I don't agree with you. Why call it a 2 state solution? Totally unnecessary Did we call Mexico and the U.S. a 2 state solution after the Mexican American War in which the U.S. usurped everything north of the Rio Grande from Mexico in exchange for a coercive settlement of $18M in 1848 (a joke of a "treaty")? No. Then why call Palestine and Israel a 2 state solution here? Its misleading rhetoric meant to tie historic Palestinian homeland to Israel occupation...and eventual usurpation.
Did we try and call the establishment of the Republic of Georgia dissolution from the USSR as an independent, Sovereign State a 2 state solution? No. Did we try and call the establish of Guyana as a Sovereign Nation in 1966 a 2 state solution? After all, it declared its independence from British controlled Guiana (upon which Venezuela re-established claim to as their native land)--that Great Britain also laid claim to as a colony; just as they did in Palestine-- to this day). Why do we not call that a 2 state solution? Because it isn't.
I could go on...but I hope you get my point. That is: You don't need to refer to the establish of a Sovereign State as a 2 state solution when both are recognized as a Sovereign States internationally--separate and distinct-- from each another. To come at it another way, I ask you where in world does a "two state solution" exist... or has been advocated for historically? I argue that Palestine has been paid lip service as a Sovereign State, but has not been granted the international rights and privileges any other has received--not by the U.N. and certainly not by Israel. If it had, the rhetoric of a "two state solution" would not continue. In other words, it proves the lie Israel has imposed on the rest of the world that it is a democracy. Its not. It is theocracy run by fanatical Zionists that have imposed illegal apartheid on a significant portion of its occupied territory/residents (Palestinians) that they wish for the rest of the world to believe live independent of Israel's control. They don't. They live, die, and starve in the largest open air prison to have ever been created on the planet. Its time for that to end with the establishment of a true, Palestinian State that enjoys the same rights as other Sovereign Nations. That has nothing to do with creating or pursuing a fantasy labeled "two state solution".
The UN's Human Rights office called on Israel "to overturn the ban" on Al Jazeera. The Foreign Press Association urged the Netanyahu government to "reverse this harmful step and uphold its commitment to freedom of the press."
The Israelis refuse to let the truth out. Palestinian journalists have been targeted!
This is what happens when you have U.S. presidents like W say to the world in March of 2003 that "The U.N. is irrelevant" when the Security Council was not persuaded by his administrator's (in this case SoS Colin Powell) argument for there being weapons of mass destruction stockpiled in Iraq. So the U.S. decided to attack a Sovereign Country anyhow with its own weapons of mass destruction-- in an operation dubbed "shock and awe". Its was completely illegal in terms of international law (not to mention morally reprehensible), but nobody opposed it. In my opinion, that's what was most shocking and most awful about it. Iraq never attacked the U.S. We had no right to wage war on this Sovereign Nation--or hunt down and behead its dictator. But we did. Anyhow, that's called allowing the "law of the jungle" to rule over established civil law. W set us back, diplomatically at least 70 years by allowing civil law to become irrelevant in the face of overwhelming military might and lust for personal retribution. That setback echoes and continues to this day with Israel following suit with its own militarily superior force as it inflicts personal retribution against those they dislike and deem inferior.
What to do about it? Well, when you have an military emphasis and a monetary bias toward propping up international organizations and clubs like NATO rather than the U.N., then you're going to continue having these problems. It's up the U.S. people to vote in people that care more about civil law than military might. It should also be a choice that the American people (and, indeed, the world) make by putting W, Chaney, and Powell in jail for violating civil and international law. Biden, Blinken, and and Austin should be brought up on charges of violating The Genocide Treaty today (as well a 5 other domestic laws). But they haven't. That's a choice that the American people cannot seemingly connect the dots toward. My only hope is that they eventually educate themselves towards doing so. After all, the U.N. was mainly the U.S.'s brainchild of a solution toward resolving international conflicts after WWII. But there hasn't been the backbone to allow it to come to fruition. You can make all the great laws you want. But if you don't enforce them, then what good are they? Maybe that will happen someday, but I will likely not live to see it. With nuclear Armageddon looming with the International doomsday clock set mere seconds away from midnight, many others-- much younger than I-- may not either.
Free uncontrolled journalism is the mainstay of a democracy. however, the international rules don’t apply to the US and obviously Israel. Yet, they are quick to condemn other nations that violate international law. How can you combat such a monstrous bully?
Brilliant. Your thoughtful, reasoned, factual discussion soothed me. I have been....continue to be... enraged at the savagery...and the NYT [sic] coverage as apologia....I lose control of my emotions and want to act out in a frenzied resistance. You, your genius, compassion, integrity...helps to center the factual reasons for the rage. Truly....you ARE a lifeline for me now....in so many ways. Keep on keeping on. In solidarity.
Individuals on this thread should not conflate the desires of the average Palestinian with the intentions and objectives of HAMAS. What is happening to the average Palestinian is a direct result of HAMAS's pogrom on 10/7/2023. Naturally Israel would respond. The degree of its response has been brutal and inhumane. When Chris Hedges conflates the actions of Israel with genocide he does nothing in the service of peace. Rater he employs semantics to supports further chaos in the name of Justice. That is a view no less cynical than the leadership of HAMAS.
HAMAS is not representative of the Palestinian people. It is an Islamist Jihad organization that has a business model of chaos creation. Iran purchases that service. What happens in the Middle East affects all nations given its centrality in fossil fuel production. There are many competing power elites with interests in the Middle East, unfortunately the average Palestinian suffers the consequences of their ambitions.
This is a fantastic discussion. The insight Chris Hedges shares is dire and at the same time refreshing because it gives us some hope of breaking through all of the political treachery to envision a solution for the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank. Hedges’ insight is desperately needed just as his reach is being severely constricted by mainstream media. The reason for that restriction is sadly obvious: Hedges is critical of the powers that be and knows that behind the powers that be are enormous global corporations that operate beyond the law.
Chris Hedges is right about the savagery of violence. He misses entirely the point of this titanic struggle. This has nothing to do with land. It has everything to do with agency. The issue of agency applies to both Israeli Jews and Palestinians.
Jews living in Europe and Russia had no agency. They may have had influence in the professions, commerce, education, and finance; however, they were never "in charge". Europe was a very chaotic place for much of its history and with the titanic struggles of the 20th century, 60% of European Jewry were slaughtered. Had Germany "won" and obtained from the English and what remained of the West a free hand in the East doubtless, that percentage would have been much higher.
With the establishment of Israel, Jews achieved agency. They are the masters of their own destiny. They hold the reigns of power within their borders. Chris Hedges ignores that point entirely in all of his writings or interviews on this subject.
Currently, the Palestinians have no agency. In some respects they are in an analogous situation as the Jews in Europe and Russia. The irony is that this is in a land they and their relations have occupied for many centuries. Their lack of agency only relates in part to the colonizers and their oppressors. These are fashionable words but do they really describe adequately the issues?
It is no great mystery that a group of people who have moved into a territory would engage in behaviors to ensure their security. This is not a matter of justice, it is a matter of politics. It is no great mystery that those who are displaced would have hatred. None of these emotions leads to a solution.
Some will say that the Palestinians' lack of agency is due solely to the Israelis. This is not a cogent position. HAMAS has expressly stated that it is committed to the destruction of the state of Israel. Can anyone think that a people who suffered genocide in Europe and who now have agency in a nation state of their creation would submit to such individuals? To believe that they would submit borders not just on lunacy but irresponsible amorality. I cannot imagine anyone on this thread would submit. Chris Hedges most certainly would not.
I think that the Palestinian leadership be it HAMAS or the PLO or any of the many factions have failed in the basic principles of governance. They have failed in all of their objectives: 1) a Palestinian nation state; and 2) agency for the Palestinians. They have failed in the basic roles of governance: 1) protection of the wealth of its citizens; and 2) effective and just redistribution of wealth. The only results of the Palestinian leadership have been ethnic cleansing and disproportionate deaths among the Palestinians.
Chris Hedges supports this failure as a matter of principle and justice. Is he really interested in peace or just in continued violence? At some point, the concept of "justice" has to give way to peace and opportunity
Oh my...so wrong in so many ways. Agency? Most of us hoi polloi "lack agency." As do women who are by law forced to be mothers. Women...who didn't have the vote until 1920. Black people, LGBTQ people, poor people, homeless people, people in jail for - the horror!- smoking marijuana, early immigrant groups from Europe who were despised and exploited by whites. ...we have or still do lack what you call "agency." Sorry...."agency" EMPHATICALLY does NOT justify the genocide, war crimes, savagery, wanton disregard for human life. Perhaps you may have missed the children amputated without anesthetics...babies in incubators. Israel will go down in history as the evil state it is and has always been as Mr. Hedges explains. No....NOT "agency"....it's savagery, depravity... genocide. If there is a hell for nation states, Israel and the US will be there for the millions and millions of bodies and souls they left in exploiting people and the earth itself....for WEALTH AND POWER.
You need not capitalize the entire word "emphatically". It only results in you being unnecessarily redundant... and literally yelling-- rather that making a rational point. Further, the issue of genocide has nothing to do with heaven or hell... and Chris does not need to be made into a religious figure by holy hoppers like yourself. He is simply a individual wishing to illustrate reality as he sees it. If you agree with it (as I mostly do), then fine. However, it does not need to be represented as "the truth" or gospel because the truth is always relative and the gospel should be reserved for worship.
Lastly, how are women forced, by law, to become mothers? You seem to be including all women in your declaration. I believe the only cases where this is fact is in some cases of rape. Even then, it would only represent a very small fraction of women that has very little bearing on the general "agency" of being a woman. To the contrary, motherhood appears to me to be, largely, an "agency" of choice.
Having lived through the continuous attacks on Western Civilization and thought, a thread such as this illustrates a number of points.
The Enlightenment and the Age of Reason arose as reactions to the continuous bloodshed in Europe. Generation after generation died. One of the worst conflicts prior to the Industrial Revolution was the 30-Years War. The concept of a nation state with defined borders came out of that tragedy. It may have taken two world wars but in the end the mitigating strategies of the Enlightenment became embedded in European political behavior.
Allowing policy to be dictated by emotion only opens the door to the worst aspects of human behavior. This tragedy will never stop until its dawns on the protagonists that their perception of injustice does not justify continuous acts of vengeance. Employing the rubric of "armed resistance" as a "right" only gets one so far and in this situation has only led to ethnic cleansing and disproportionate death.
I see your point; and proposed solution: Blame the victim. If only it would dawn on the victims that ethnic cleansing and disproportionate death were their own fault, then the heros of your story could end their apartheid regime and move on with the glory of their enlightenment and Age of Reason--without any of the protagonists left to spoil it with their unjust and faulity "perceptions".
The solution is to be a decent human being. I hold no delusion of being in a position to dictate the actions of others. You may want to consider being a decent human being yourself as the solution begins with the commitment of each individual
Yah...Chris Hedges is interested "in violence"? That sentence says it all. About your argument. No one need read any more of your text than that sentence. It absolutely destroys any credibility you may have.
Chris Hedges is interested in violence. He understands only to well the seductive nature of violence. After following Chris Hedges and his writings for years, I've never come away with a sense that he rejects violence as a solution to human affairs. I've seen no evidence that he is a disciple of individuals who did abjure violence, Gandhi and MLK.
Assuming the polarizing position which he has and painting the struggles of Israel as an "evil" state is just a verbal means of violence. He knows full well that his position will stoke future violence because rather like Donald Trump, it promises retribution.
Have you read Chris Hedges' writings? He understands very well the seductive nature of war and violence. This is particularly the case when the propaganda machine gets running. He understands well the all too human ability to slip into inhumane behavior which is present in all humans.
Very few souls in the realm of politics have transcended that innate tendency. Gandhi was one. The Palestinian leadership has never pursued nonviolent action sincerely or with any true intentions. I suspect Chris Hedges understand this as well.
Chris Hedges has interviewed members of the HAMAS leadership, as such he understands their thinking. He knows full well that HAMAS employs the citizenry of Gaza as unarmed combatants in its propaganda war. He fails to mention the HAMAS Charter of 1988 which is a genocidal document directed towards Israel.
In the end, it is a waste of lives and time to continuously bring up all the injustices. Such behavior only prolongs the violence. Eventually, one should accept the existence of Israel and move on. Stop the attacks, make peace.
I keep hoping that the human race will advance to the level where the overwhelming majority of people realize that we are all in this together and that we can live and work together to find peaceful solutions. 2,000 years of history has tried to teach us lessons. We don't have to have wars. You (Rick) are one of those who has trouble comprehending what true humanity is.
I don't know what species you evolved from, but I believe my history started a lot longer than 2,000 years ago. That history informs me that war in inevitable... and unavoidable. How we resolve them is what can and must be improved.
Right. AIPAC troll indeed. All you need to do to blame the Palestinians for this is ignore almost all of the salient history and lie about the rest. Not that it matters. At this stage, all we have left is the hope for retributive justice. In the case of Israel, turning it into Gaza, with the same level of savagery. Nothing left standing. Everyone dead or scattered to the winds. Sounds fair to me.
I disagree. I believe this struggle has EVERYTHING to do with the land. Land is everything in a world with limited agricultural landscape; particularly in a very desirable and temperate climate zone. The only agency you have is via the land--and it is the only mechanism with which to gain Sovereign Statehood. It seems the Jews stole this land from the Arabs (through a keen perpetuation of propaganda--telling the world the land was largely unoccupied and getting the British to exchange it with them and surreptitiously legalize and formalize this "western" style deal known as the Balfour Declaration. The Balfour Declaration; it just sounds so legal and permanent, doesn't it? It isn't. Essentially, the British exchanged this land they took by imperial force in return for the Jewish diaspora financing Britain's expensive WWI victory ( thereby protecting the Motherland of the Empire) in order for Zionists to gain their own, independent agency with it; that is, the State of Israel. As a matter of course, the Palestinians lost their agency in an illegal land exchange. I hope that Karma will play out and right the wrong here-- as it eventually does. You can only perpetuate a lie for so long.
At least we agree it is about agency. We are entering a period of technological expansion where land will be less essential in providing food. Holland has already demonstrated this tremendous increase in agricultural productivity.
Considering their near annihilation in Europe the Jews have obtained an agency in Israel they never had. They deserve that agency.
Revenge fantasies as you express above are an expression of immorality where "justice" acts to enable inhumane acts. Compromise is the only path forward.
Agency is a broad term; it's easy to agree on some aspects.
However, IMO the extreme theocratic government of Israel led by Zionists wouldn't know morality or justice if they tripped over it. They have been found to be plausible perpetrators of genocide by the International Court of Justices (Head Judge being a U.S. representative) and therefore they have forfeited any moral high ground obtained by " their near annihilation" (whatever that means) in Europe. They deserve nothing at this point; least of all land that was originally stolen by the British Empire and then given to them in an extortionist campaign by Zionists in order to finance Great Britain's WWI efforts to avoid their own annihilation in war.
What you describe is the state of human affairs throughout history. The Zionists have influence, however, that is predicated on continuous attacks and the resultant fear. Certainly 10/7/2023 pushed the Israeli public to harden their position.
You know only too well, that the Levant was a part of the Ottoman Empire that was ceded to Britain at the end of WW2. Seems to me they worked as hard as they could to distance themselves from that unstable region after the end of WW2.
In war there is all too often no morality. WW2 was the most recent example of Total War. The International rules were changed to mitigate that horror; however, the objectives of war remain.
The points you bring up above may be completely true. They do nothing to solve the problem. At this time, it looks as if Israel will go into Rafah. Seeing HAMAS as an existential threat they will seek its destruction. Apart from ending the violence, what would you do?
So appreciate your reporting. As a 75 year old Jewish grandmother and retired physician, I find you express and represent my sentiments, rage, and grief exactly. Thank you.
Stay strong, Chris. You help the rest of us so much. I just cancelled my recurring donation to Scruggs’s sinking ship.
So did I
I think there is one important difference between the settler colonial project in South Africa that begat apartheid, and the settler colonial project in Israel that gave rise to the two Palestinian Territories in Gaza and the West Bank. That difference is that in South Africa, the labor of the dispossessed Africans was necessary for the apartheid state to function. There was never any question of a genocide of the huge African majority. Certainly they were terrorized, and were subject to hideous violence by the apartheid state. But actual genocide wasn’t an option, as vile as the racism was. In Israel, some Palestinians might have ‘jobs’ which required them to be allowed into Israel, but on a much smaller scale than amongst Africans under the white regime in South Africa. In Israel, murdering or forcibly exiling all Palestinians has been the real agenda from the beginning. Without minimizing the horror of South Africa under Apartheid, I think the Israeli genocidal system has always been different- and worse. Apartheid is a word that has been used to describe it by opponents because, I think, it captures the system’s two-tiered nature and has very correct negative connotations. But, it’s really not negative ENOUGH.
Yes...."not negative enough"...we need new words for the evil the world is seeing. I want to be remembered as one among the "the good Americans"....
There are many great minds, many strong spirits, but only one Chris Hedges. It’s an honor, a privilege, and a pleasure, to renew my subscription.
We will now take time to “study more” the “exporting” (ethnic cleansing) surviving starving desperate Palestinians and, after ICC indicted Putin for saving children in war zone, current direct threats and blackmail to ICC for issuing arrests of leadership of apartheid Nazi-Israel:
• After horrible industrial scale slaughter of mostly women and children — US is now looking where to export select (by Israel) starving million+ civilians while “disappearing” male Palestinians.
The “Final Solution”……
• ICC -- https://rumble.com/v4t6xzr-icc-intl-criminal-court-is-finished.html
"Saving Ukrainian children".
Saving them from what, Putin's aggression?
Children in a war zone in a freed territory — our little troll
Very good interview. I just upgraded to paid subscriber, so looking forward to more interviews like this one and more of your writing/reporting. I really wish my country’s government would stop supplying these weapons to Israel just so they can murder more women and children. I have made my voice heard and will continue to do so. I’m sorry I ever supported Trump(don’t now) in that he is no better than Genocide Joe when it comes to Israel. I saw a clip the other night of Hannity and Trump on Fox News talking about how upset they were over the pro Palestine protests on college campuses across America and how we must let Israel do its thing in Gaza. It made me sick to hear this and I’m so glad I ditched Fox News over two years ago. I won’t support any of these two political parties because they are the uniparty when it comes to all these wars and Israel.
Good for you. There is Jill Stein?
I’m planning on voting for her. I just hope she’s on the ballot in November in my state of Alabama. If not I won’t vote or I’ll write in Uncommitted.
Great.
Trump is chaos and will be used by the Royalist faction in the US that has led to many of our problems. Jill Stein is not a solution. Chris Hedges made a very fatuous statement in one of his prior posting. He accused Biden of missing a New Deal Opportunity. That was very silly and irresponsible to conflate the circumstances of today with those of FDR.
You can write her in. It’s symbolic at the state level but it matters in the popular vote.
I’ll keep that in mind. Thank you, Ki.😊
When I next speak with one of those pathetic liberals who speak of Trump voters with such condescension and hatred I will think of you. They, in their smug isolation, are more rigid and suffocating than most of the people they disdain. I remember when once Cesar Chavez was asked by an associate why he welcomed people from “the other side”, he said: “Because they’ve seen both sides now, and have every reason to be loyal to us.”
Agreed, Chris Hedges sees very clearly the source of disaffection in the American Experience. The Clintons were the greatest betrayers of the American Experience.
Thank you for your comment.😊🙏☮️🇵🇸
Realize that Chris Hedges has no vested interest in the war in Gaza. He simply reports the facts. The NY Times; however, has to appease their backers. The strong Israeli lobby controls their narrative. The ICC wants to charge Israel with genocide and the Israeli response is that proclamation is antisemitism. Enough of Israel’s constant rhetoric. In my opinion, as brutal and sinful as the holocaust was, this is the sole reason the state was granted in 1948 by the UN. There was no consideration for the Palestinians or others living in that part of the world for centuries. The only solution is to have a two state solution where each state governs their own territory and their borders. The US can be part of this solution. If both sides could put aside their hatred and realize that this is the only solution for peace. Put aside everything that has happened as difficult as that may be. “IMAGINE”!
I am of the opinion that a 2 state solution would NOT be wise.
If Israel is going to go on we the people would like to see the Palestinians incorporated into ONE country with Palestinians and Israelis in the Govt. on equal terms.
IF there was to be a 2 state solution the same old shit will happen again.
Yes there should be one country called Palestine for all peoples to live and be a part of as long as they abide by international law. The two state solution is no longer viable imho. The Israelis can’t be trusted to abide by the terms of allowing a sovereign Palestine.
Not to worry. The “two state solution” was not only never seriously pursued, it was a lie designed by the scum governments in the U.S. and Israel to mislead the public in the U.S. Those in Israel knew damned well it was a lie, which explains the out-migration of a significant percentage of sane and decent Israelis over the past couple of decades. Now, even the lie is dead, along with any hope that the genocide can be stopped.
Jenny,
You paint the situation as an either/or dichotomy. It's not. You've been programmed into believing the Palestinians must choose between a fallacious set of limited choices. With all due respect, see my reply to Allan Gnidec above.
BTW, unless you're Palestinian, you're not "we the people". You're only in a position to observe and legally recognize the choice of Palestinians from the perspective of your own State Sovereignty. Further, I don't see how your preference could possibly be legally predicated on Israel's continued State Sovereignty.
I humbly disagree. The Palestinians and Israelis are diametrically opposed in religion and philosophy of life. Whom ever has the majority in ONE country would rule…. an untenable situation
So what....there are hundreds of sects and religions in the US. We're not at war over it....yet.
Really? What do you call the police brutality and armed conflicts (I saw plenty of bludgeons being used and one police bullet was found lodge in a University building wall) on U.S. University campuses right now? The impetus for the University uprisings is based on student protests against Isreali apartheid and resulting Palestinian genocide--the cause for which is sectarian based. Based on the facts, I'd have to call this, essentially, a religious war.
Enough of Israel's constant rhetoric? How about reigning in your own rhetoric about continuing the charade of a "two state solution". IMO there doesn't need to be rhetoric about a two state solution because it inextricably ties any feigned rights of Palestinians to the rights of Israelis.
The issue is simply state sovereignty, period. Each State deserves their own. If any State does not have sovereignty over all of their own affairs, then they are not a Sovereign State. Right now, it appears to me that Palestine is an occupied territory with a population under constant siege and threat of systematic genocide. It has been for decades. What other Sovereign State operates like this? That's right; none. So its more than high time that a U.N. cease fire is declared, genocide (and other war crime) perpetrators are tried in an international tribunal having jurisdiction, and the Palestinian people start to enjoy the same rights as do the people of any other sovereign State.
My interpretation of a 2 state solution is indeed as you describe…. Each a sovereign state governing their people and their borders…. a 2 state solution unless I am misinterpreting what that means. I totally agree with you!
I don't agree with you. Why call it a 2 state solution? Totally unnecessary Did we call Mexico and the U.S. a 2 state solution after the Mexican American War in which the U.S. usurped everything north of the Rio Grande from Mexico in exchange for a coercive settlement of $18M in 1848 (a joke of a "treaty")? No. Then why call Palestine and Israel a 2 state solution here? Its misleading rhetoric meant to tie historic Palestinian homeland to Israel occupation...and eventual usurpation.
Did we try and call the establishment of the Republic of Georgia dissolution from the USSR as an independent, Sovereign State a 2 state solution? No. Did we try and call the establish of Guyana as a Sovereign Nation in 1966 a 2 state solution? After all, it declared its independence from British controlled Guiana (upon which Venezuela re-established claim to as their native land)--that Great Britain also laid claim to as a colony; just as they did in Palestine-- to this day). Why do we not call that a 2 state solution? Because it isn't.
I could go on...but I hope you get my point. That is: You don't need to refer to the establish of a Sovereign State as a 2 state solution when both are recognized as a Sovereign States internationally--separate and distinct-- from each another. To come at it another way, I ask you where in world does a "two state solution" exist... or has been advocated for historically? I argue that Palestine has been paid lip service as a Sovereign State, but has not been granted the international rights and privileges any other has received--not by the U.N. and certainly not by Israel. If it had, the rhetoric of a "two state solution" would not continue. In other words, it proves the lie Israel has imposed on the rest of the world that it is a democracy. Its not. It is theocracy run by fanatical Zionists that have imposed illegal apartheid on a significant portion of its occupied territory/residents (Palestinians) that they wish for the rest of the world to believe live independent of Israel's control. They don't. They live, die, and starve in the largest open air prison to have ever been created on the planet. Its time for that to end with the establishment of a true, Palestinian State that enjoys the same rights as other Sovereign Nations. That has nothing to do with creating or pursuing a fantasy labeled "two state solution".
Herein lies the problem:-
The UN's Human Rights office called on Israel "to overturn the ban" on Al Jazeera. The Foreign Press Association urged the Netanyahu government to "reverse this harmful step and uphold its commitment to freedom of the press."
The Israelis refuse to let the truth out. Palestinian journalists have been targeted!
This is what happens when you have U.S. presidents like W say to the world in March of 2003 that "The U.N. is irrelevant" when the Security Council was not persuaded by his administrator's (in this case SoS Colin Powell) argument for there being weapons of mass destruction stockpiled in Iraq. So the U.S. decided to attack a Sovereign Country anyhow with its own weapons of mass destruction-- in an operation dubbed "shock and awe". Its was completely illegal in terms of international law (not to mention morally reprehensible), but nobody opposed it. In my opinion, that's what was most shocking and most awful about it. Iraq never attacked the U.S. We had no right to wage war on this Sovereign Nation--or hunt down and behead its dictator. But we did. Anyhow, that's called allowing the "law of the jungle" to rule over established civil law. W set us back, diplomatically at least 70 years by allowing civil law to become irrelevant in the face of overwhelming military might and lust for personal retribution. That setback echoes and continues to this day with Israel following suit with its own militarily superior force as it inflicts personal retribution against those they dislike and deem inferior.
What to do about it? Well, when you have an military emphasis and a monetary bias toward propping up international organizations and clubs like NATO rather than the U.N., then you're going to continue having these problems. It's up the U.S. people to vote in people that care more about civil law than military might. It should also be a choice that the American people (and, indeed, the world) make by putting W, Chaney, and Powell in jail for violating civil and international law. Biden, Blinken, and and Austin should be brought up on charges of violating The Genocide Treaty today (as well a 5 other domestic laws). But they haven't. That's a choice that the American people cannot seemingly connect the dots toward. My only hope is that they eventually educate themselves towards doing so. After all, the U.N. was mainly the U.S.'s brainchild of a solution toward resolving international conflicts after WWII. But there hasn't been the backbone to allow it to come to fruition. You can make all the great laws you want. But if you don't enforce them, then what good are they? Maybe that will happen someday, but I will likely not live to see it. With nuclear Armageddon looming with the International doomsday clock set mere seconds away from midnight, many others-- much younger than I-- may not either.
Free uncontrolled journalism is the mainstay of a democracy. however, the international rules don’t apply to the US and obviously Israel. Yet, they are quick to condemn other nations that violate international law. How can you combat such a monstrous bully?
TOTALLY AGREE!
At this stage a most reasonable proposal. This is a proposal that Chris Hedges avoids at all costs in any of his polemics.
Go away. AIPAC troll maybe?
Man I love this guy he’s always on point
Excellent, concise historical and from presence on the ground analysis from Chris Hedges in interview,
Brilliant. Your thoughtful, reasoned, factual discussion soothed me. I have been....continue to be... enraged at the savagery...and the NYT [sic] coverage as apologia....I lose control of my emotions and want to act out in a frenzied resistance. You, your genius, compassion, integrity...helps to center the factual reasons for the rage. Truly....you ARE a lifeline for me now....in so many ways. Keep on keeping on. In solidarity.
Individuals on this thread should not conflate the desires of the average Palestinian with the intentions and objectives of HAMAS. What is happening to the average Palestinian is a direct result of HAMAS's pogrom on 10/7/2023. Naturally Israel would respond. The degree of its response has been brutal and inhumane. When Chris Hedges conflates the actions of Israel with genocide he does nothing in the service of peace. Rater he employs semantics to supports further chaos in the name of Justice. That is a view no less cynical than the leadership of HAMAS.
HAMAS is not representative of the Palestinian people. It is an Islamist Jihad organization that has a business model of chaos creation. Iran purchases that service. What happens in the Middle East affects all nations given its centrality in fossil fuel production. There are many competing power elites with interests in the Middle East, unfortunately the average Palestinian suffers the consequences of their ambitions.
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/israel/what-hamas-wants-postwar-gaza
This is a fantastic discussion. The insight Chris Hedges shares is dire and at the same time refreshing because it gives us some hope of breaking through all of the political treachery to envision a solution for the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank. Hedges’ insight is desperately needed just as his reach is being severely constricted by mainstream media. The reason for that restriction is sadly obvious: Hedges is critical of the powers that be and knows that behind the powers that be are enormous global corporations that operate beyond the law.
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Chris Hedges is right about the savagery of violence. He misses entirely the point of this titanic struggle. This has nothing to do with land. It has everything to do with agency. The issue of agency applies to both Israeli Jews and Palestinians.
Jews living in Europe and Russia had no agency. They may have had influence in the professions, commerce, education, and finance; however, they were never "in charge". Europe was a very chaotic place for much of its history and with the titanic struggles of the 20th century, 60% of European Jewry were slaughtered. Had Germany "won" and obtained from the English and what remained of the West a free hand in the East doubtless, that percentage would have been much higher.
With the establishment of Israel, Jews achieved agency. They are the masters of their own destiny. They hold the reigns of power within their borders. Chris Hedges ignores that point entirely in all of his writings or interviews on this subject.
Currently, the Palestinians have no agency. In some respects they are in an analogous situation as the Jews in Europe and Russia. The irony is that this is in a land they and their relations have occupied for many centuries. Their lack of agency only relates in part to the colonizers and their oppressors. These are fashionable words but do they really describe adequately the issues?
It is no great mystery that a group of people who have moved into a territory would engage in behaviors to ensure their security. This is not a matter of justice, it is a matter of politics. It is no great mystery that those who are displaced would have hatred. None of these emotions leads to a solution.
Some will say that the Palestinians' lack of agency is due solely to the Israelis. This is not a cogent position. HAMAS has expressly stated that it is committed to the destruction of the state of Israel. Can anyone think that a people who suffered genocide in Europe and who now have agency in a nation state of their creation would submit to such individuals? To believe that they would submit borders not just on lunacy but irresponsible amorality. I cannot imagine anyone on this thread would submit. Chris Hedges most certainly would not.
I think that the Palestinian leadership be it HAMAS or the PLO or any of the many factions have failed in the basic principles of governance. They have failed in all of their objectives: 1) a Palestinian nation state; and 2) agency for the Palestinians. They have failed in the basic roles of governance: 1) protection of the wealth of its citizens; and 2) effective and just redistribution of wealth. The only results of the Palestinian leadership have been ethnic cleansing and disproportionate deaths among the Palestinians.
Chris Hedges supports this failure as a matter of principle and justice. Is he really interested in peace or just in continued violence? At some point, the concept of "justice" has to give way to peace and opportunity
Oh my...so wrong in so many ways. Agency? Most of us hoi polloi "lack agency." As do women who are by law forced to be mothers. Women...who didn't have the vote until 1920. Black people, LGBTQ people, poor people, homeless people, people in jail for - the horror!- smoking marijuana, early immigrant groups from Europe who were despised and exploited by whites. ...we have or still do lack what you call "agency." Sorry...."agency" EMPHATICALLY does NOT justify the genocide, war crimes, savagery, wanton disregard for human life. Perhaps you may have missed the children amputated without anesthetics...babies in incubators. Israel will go down in history as the evil state it is and has always been as Mr. Hedges explains. No....NOT "agency"....it's savagery, depravity... genocide. If there is a hell for nation states, Israel and the US will be there for the millions and millions of bodies and souls they left in exploiting people and the earth itself....for WEALTH AND POWER.
You need not capitalize the entire word "emphatically". It only results in you being unnecessarily redundant... and literally yelling-- rather that making a rational point. Further, the issue of genocide has nothing to do with heaven or hell... and Chris does not need to be made into a religious figure by holy hoppers like yourself. He is simply a individual wishing to illustrate reality as he sees it. If you agree with it (as I mostly do), then fine. However, it does not need to be represented as "the truth" or gospel because the truth is always relative and the gospel should be reserved for worship.
Lastly, how are women forced, by law, to become mothers? You seem to be including all women in your declaration. I believe the only cases where this is fact is in some cases of rape. Even then, it would only represent a very small fraction of women that has very little bearing on the general "agency" of being a woman. To the contrary, motherhood appears to me to be, largely, an "agency" of choice.
Having lived through the continuous attacks on Western Civilization and thought, a thread such as this illustrates a number of points.
The Enlightenment and the Age of Reason arose as reactions to the continuous bloodshed in Europe. Generation after generation died. One of the worst conflicts prior to the Industrial Revolution was the 30-Years War. The concept of a nation state with defined borders came out of that tragedy. It may have taken two world wars but in the end the mitigating strategies of the Enlightenment became embedded in European political behavior.
Allowing policy to be dictated by emotion only opens the door to the worst aspects of human behavior. This tragedy will never stop until its dawns on the protagonists that their perception of injustice does not justify continuous acts of vengeance. Employing the rubric of "armed resistance" as a "right" only gets one so far and in this situation has only led to ethnic cleansing and disproportionate death.
I see your point; and proposed solution: Blame the victim. If only it would dawn on the victims that ethnic cleansing and disproportionate death were their own fault, then the heros of your story could end their apartheid regime and move on with the glory of their enlightenment and Age of Reason--without any of the protagonists left to spoil it with their unjust and faulity "perceptions".
You certainly have the rhetoric down. No solutions but lots for moral outrage and seeking "Justice".
Does the slaughter give purpose to your life?
Do you revel in the chaos?
Do you think that your moralistic behavior from a position of no skin in the game has any relevance?
You erroneously conflate the desires of average Palestinians with the objectives and intentions of HAMAS and other radical Islamist groups.
You and many other individuals on Chris Hedges postings are superficial moralists and actually lack a moral compass.
The solution is to be a decent human being. I hold no delusion of being in a position to dictate the actions of others. You may want to consider being a decent human being yourself as the solution begins with the commitment of each individual
Whatever....
Your response is that of a true, Socratic dead fish. Nothing plus nothing equals nothing.
Yah...Chris Hedges is interested "in violence"? That sentence says it all. About your argument. No one need read any more of your text than that sentence. It absolutely destroys any credibility you may have.
Chris Hedges is interested in violence. He understands only to well the seductive nature of violence. After following Chris Hedges and his writings for years, I've never come away with a sense that he rejects violence as a solution to human affairs. I've seen no evidence that he is a disciple of individuals who did abjure violence, Gandhi and MLK.
Assuming the polarizing position which he has and painting the struggles of Israel as an "evil" state is just a verbal means of violence. He knows full well that his position will stoke future violence because rather like Donald Trump, it promises retribution.
Troll.
Auf wiedersehen, Adiós, Mae alsalama, Au revoir, Aloha, Sayōnara .... etc. et al.
Have you read Chris Hedges' writings? He understands very well the seductive nature of war and violence. This is particularly the case when the propaganda machine gets running. He understands well the all too human ability to slip into inhumane behavior which is present in all humans.
Very few souls in the realm of politics have transcended that innate tendency. Gandhi was one. The Palestinian leadership has never pursued nonviolent action sincerely or with any true intentions. I suspect Chris Hedges understand this as well.
Chris Hedges has interviewed members of the HAMAS leadership, as such he understands their thinking. He knows full well that HAMAS employs the citizenry of Gaza as unarmed combatants in its propaganda war. He fails to mention the HAMAS Charter of 1988 which is a genocidal document directed towards Israel.
In the end, it is a waste of lives and time to continuously bring up all the injustices. Such behavior only prolongs the violence. Eventually, one should accept the existence of Israel and move on. Stop the attacks, make peace.
I keep hoping that the human race will advance to the level where the overwhelming majority of people realize that we are all in this together and that we can live and work together to find peaceful solutions. 2,000 years of history has tried to teach us lessons. We don't have to have wars. You (Rick) are one of those who has trouble comprehending what true humanity is.
I don't know what species you evolved from, but I believe my history started a lot longer than 2,000 years ago. That history informs me that war in inevitable... and unavoidable. How we resolve them is what can and must be improved.
Right. AIPAC troll indeed. All you need to do to blame the Palestinians for this is ignore almost all of the salient history and lie about the rest. Not that it matters. At this stage, all we have left is the hope for retributive justice. In the case of Israel, turning it into Gaza, with the same level of savagery. Nothing left standing. Everyone dead or scattered to the winds. Sounds fair to me.
I disagree. I believe this struggle has EVERYTHING to do with the land. Land is everything in a world with limited agricultural landscape; particularly in a very desirable and temperate climate zone. The only agency you have is via the land--and it is the only mechanism with which to gain Sovereign Statehood. It seems the Jews stole this land from the Arabs (through a keen perpetuation of propaganda--telling the world the land was largely unoccupied and getting the British to exchange it with them and surreptitiously legalize and formalize this "western" style deal known as the Balfour Declaration. The Balfour Declaration; it just sounds so legal and permanent, doesn't it? It isn't. Essentially, the British exchanged this land they took by imperial force in return for the Jewish diaspora financing Britain's expensive WWI victory ( thereby protecting the Motherland of the Empire) in order for Zionists to gain their own, independent agency with it; that is, the State of Israel. As a matter of course, the Palestinians lost their agency in an illegal land exchange. I hope that Karma will play out and right the wrong here-- as it eventually does. You can only perpetuate a lie for so long.
At least we agree it is about agency. We are entering a period of technological expansion where land will be less essential in providing food. Holland has already demonstrated this tremendous increase in agricultural productivity.
Considering their near annihilation in Europe the Jews have obtained an agency in Israel they never had. They deserve that agency.
Revenge fantasies as you express above are an expression of immorality where "justice" acts to enable inhumane acts. Compromise is the only path forward.
Agency is a broad term; it's easy to agree on some aspects.
However, IMO the extreme theocratic government of Israel led by Zionists wouldn't know morality or justice if they tripped over it. They have been found to be plausible perpetrators of genocide by the International Court of Justices (Head Judge being a U.S. representative) and therefore they have forfeited any moral high ground obtained by " their near annihilation" (whatever that means) in Europe. They deserve nothing at this point; least of all land that was originally stolen by the British Empire and then given to them in an extortionist campaign by Zionists in order to finance Great Britain's WWI efforts to avoid their own annihilation in war.
What you describe is the state of human affairs throughout history. The Zionists have influence, however, that is predicated on continuous attacks and the resultant fear. Certainly 10/7/2023 pushed the Israeli public to harden their position.
You know only too well, that the Levant was a part of the Ottoman Empire that was ceded to Britain at the end of WW2. Seems to me they worked as hard as they could to distance themselves from that unstable region after the end of WW2.
In war there is all too often no morality. WW2 was the most recent example of Total War. The International rules were changed to mitigate that horror; however, the objectives of war remain.
The points you bring up above may be completely true. They do nothing to solve the problem. At this time, it looks as if Israel will go into Rafah. Seeing HAMAS as an existential threat they will seek its destruction. Apart from ending the violence, what would you do?