This is a conversation I had with Craig Murray and Richard Medhurst about the genocide in Gaza. It was held at Craig’s campaign headquarters in Blackburn, England where he is running for parliament. Like George Galloway, who was recently elected to parliament, Craig’s central campaign issue is the genocide in Gaza. He calls for a permanent ceasefire, the establishment of a full and independent Palestinian state and backs the boycott, divestment and sanctions campaign against the apartheid state of Israel.
Good discussion by all. I listen to Medhurst on occasion, but my enthusiasm for him is dampened a bit by his seeming glee at Israeli deaths. I oppose apartheid, am sickened by Israel's (and US's) genocide, war crimes, crimes against humanity. But I don't rejoice over Hezbollah missile impacts or resistance sniper rounds hitting their targets.
Perhaps you should remember Satre's preface to Fanon's WRETCHED OF THE EARTH: "To shoot an European is to kill two birds with one stone: to destroy the oppressor and the man he oppresses at the same time"
In any struggle for liberation you have to take sides. it's that clear/simple: every Israeli soldier taking part in this genocide who is taken out, that's a step in the right direction, which should be welcomed. There is no "both-sides" pseudo-argument to make you feel good about yourself.
Sure, you've "taken a side" - with pre-conditions "how long" or under which "limitations" your sofa solidarity will still be valid.
A typical "liberal" bubble which pops as soon as it gets uncomfortable, for you. Because that's what your kind of solidarity is all about: you/yourself.
The points often raised by Chris Hedges and others are pointless because they will lead nowhere. They are propaganda. They are also not "new news" rather I recall them being reported at the time of their occurrence or as a part of the historical record. Individuals who have had an interest in this region of the world know full well that Menachem Begin was a terrorist. The King David Hotel was bombed. The US Liberty was attacked in the Mediterranean by the Israelis. Chris Hedges and Richard Medhurst portray themselves as having a strong sense of justice. They both certainly have an interest in such an image. I agree with Dan Potter on his criticism of Richard's enthusiasm. All one needs to do is watch some of his postings. Early in this current conflict he enthusiastically called for all Islamic nations in this region to "go all in". This is against a nation armed with thermonuclear weapons. His demeanor and analogy reminded me of a poker tournament.
Doubtless Chris and Richard both have a much better understanding of the Arab world than I ever will. Chris has certainly paid a career price for his opposition to the war in Iraq during Bush2. I don't think one should accept his conflation of the failures of Bush2 policies with this current crisis. The origins are different in many ways. When one considers the common myth-making ability of all tribes, I find his criticism of stories such as "making the desert bloom" as a frivolous point. What is not a myth and what is well grounded in history is the murder of 60% of European Jewry from 1939 to 1945. The root cause of this slaughter was a lack of agency for the ethnic Jews in Europe and Russia.
For Jews, Israel is existential; Jews have agency in the state of Israel. For Palestinians it is property. Different tribes have, throughout most of history, fought over wealth. This fight for one side is existential. In that respect Chris Hedge's conflating the disproportionate deaths of Palestinians with genocide is not supportable. Ethnic cleansing most definitely and certainly disproportionate deaths. However, the behavior of the Palestinian leadership has always been to kill Jews. It is well known that Nazi propaganda had a sympathetic ear in the Arab world.
There can be peace in this region or justice. Both will never be achieved to the full satisfaction of all involved. I find the positions of Richard Medhurst and Chris Hedges to be enabling of further deaths. I find this position which supports justice above humanity as simply no solution at all.
I totally disagree that the zionist entity which will be brought to an end soon is 'existential' for jews. It became so big in the west after ww2 when DP camps for refugees many of whom were survivors of the nazi concentration camps reached crisis point after western states including both UK and amerika refused to take any more jews from among the Displaced Persons.
Pushing for the state of israel then became an obvious out for the antisemites who inhabited the elites at that time so hundreds of thousands of jews were encouraged to migrate to the middle east for the simple reason that following the push in Spain to get rid of jews along with followers of Islam had caused jews to live in the mid east for 6 centuries without issue.
Incidentally when the holocaust survivors (as zionists still insist on calling post ww2 jewish refugees) arrived in Palestine they were not well received by the zionists already living there and it wasn't until 1960 when ben-gurion made a big deal over the holocaust as a way to 'sell' zionism to the west that they were accepted.
We should not be surprised at this blatant discrimination by zionists. When Meir forced Morocco to send Mizrahi jews to the zionist entity, Mizrahi jews were persecuted. Ethiopian jews, Thai workers and of course Palestinians have all been subjected to child thefts, shocking working conditions and police indifference if not murder and oppression.
The zionist entity has been a racist endeavour from inception.
I am sure that western elites who have been so forward about the morality and honour of jewish zionists will be more than happy to accept them into their nations when it becomes necessary.
People often choose to forget that the largest and most content jewish society in the ME is in Iran. It hasn't been they who have been carrying terrorist acts in Iran, why would they as content citizens appalled at the evils of zionism? It has been Mossad and CIA recruited mercenaries from amongst the MeK terrorist group committing the bombings and other murders in Iran.
All zionists need to do is become more reasonable citizens of their new homes in europe & amerika to discover that the planet is populated by reasonable human beings, after all it was their inability to do that, instead opting to steal land, rape and murder for more than 80 years which caused these problems in the first place. I'm sure that Palestinians, a peaceful people living in this nation for millennia, are reasonable people but like all humans they do push back when oppression becomes so awful.
Doubtless like South Africa post apartheid some will choose to stay whilst others (generally the most intolerant) will leave. Naturally feelings will remain high in the ME for several generations. There will still be jews about this planet for many hundreds of years and I'm certain that most will accept that if they show tolerance for others, that is what they themselves will receive.
Right out of the HAMAS playbook. Chris Hedges did comment on the myth-making for the state of Israel. Above we see myth-making on behalf of the failed Palestinian leadership. The only accomplishment of that leadership has been ethnic cleansing and disproportionate death of Palestinians. Not to mention lies in the above post.
"People often choose to forget that the largest and most content jewish society in the ME is in Iran."
At the time of Iranian Revolution there were 80,000 Jews living in Iran. Now there are 5-8 thousand.
Jews would be perfectly reasonable if Islamic extremists would stop trying to kill them. The irony of all this is that many Arab nations are seeking diplomatic relations with Israel. This was stymied by the HAMAS attack on 10/7/2023.
I'm not going to respond to zionist propaganda such as the claim that there has been a huge fall in the number of jews in Iran. Do real research looking for comments from ME jews about the treatment including the abduction of their children that they suffered in the entity. Also there are numerous reports from Jewish refugees post ww2 both in books and in articles by jews of the discrimination they suffered there until the time of the Eichmann trial.
But most of all if you like statistics look at the entity's own numbers on the number of zionists killed by Palestinians each year compared to the number of Palestinians killed by zionists. There is a difference in favour of zionists of orders of magnitude.
Who are you to question people who have been driven off their land at gunpoint then locked into a concentration camp turned death camp choosing to fight back? International law states that any occupied people have the right to resist their occupation but the occupier has no right to fight back. The entity has stolen land from Palestine, Syria, Egypt and Lebanon yet you still defend them on the basis of some ancient text few actual zionists in the entity 'believe' in.
More dumb zionist propaganda which no longer cuts it out here in the real world. Zionists who really care about people especially jews should take note because whilst the end of the entity is inevitable, the fate of zionists in the entity is not.
Thank you I appreciate the compliment as although I am currently most vocal about the desperate situation faced by Palestinians I spent decades fighting for a better deal for indigenous people in the south west Pacific yet Palestine has been a situation of concern for many years despite feeling as many others had pre 10/7/23, that it may have become a lost cause.
I still consider the fact it took such obvious lies by western media about Palestinian treatment of zionists for many to actually learn the facts about the genocidal perfidy of zionism.
The facts about the occupation of Palestine have been available for anyone who cares to look since before 1968 when zionists began their "five day war". Although mony claim 1948 as the time trouble brgan. it has been plain for any human who cared to study it. that the 'othering' of Palestinians began in the 1870's when european banking families began purchasing land from the Ottomans that was not owned by those selling it.
Still we should never be precious about this as most people hadn't personally experienced any of the circumstance which media reports on; so they really had no reason to begin questioning the lies and deceits endemic in western reporting.
Yet the blatant behaviour of our political masters and the elites who control them must alert all of us to the selfish distortions in reports if we are all to make it past the demise of media deceits.
For example I have no doubt that the Palestinian people will defeat those who have stolen so much from them, murdered so many whilst blaming the victims of their oppression, just as the people of South Africa have managed to achieve so much, so far. Rome wasn't built in a day, similarly the construction of decent ethical communities takes time.
This could all be concluded if the existence of the state of Israel was accepted and the attacks on Israel stopped. A two state solution is a compromise as unlikely as it seems.
I find your relishing the continued attacks on Jews and the state of Israel as a evident in your statements above to be inconsistent with a consistent moral compass. You prefer "Justice" (your personal vision of course) and the attendant loss of innocent lives to compromise. You have little interest in peace and employ "justice" as a rational for continued death. Continued death in the unlikely hope that the World has Woken up and will all support the Palestinians. Certainly, the world is awakening; however, this does mean that it will be particularly supportive of Palestine. What a privileged position you must hold; no skin in the game, firm in moral certitude, and very much out of the line of fire.
Frankly I don't think that some Bronze Age texts give any right to the existence of Israel. It is an example of one of Chris Hedge's myths. In the case of Israel its exists by an ancient historical precedent: the right of conquest. You may think that it will be subsumed by the righteous but that is highly unlikely. All the propaganda about the world "waking up" is just that. With this in mind, your position, the position of Richard Medhurst and Chris Hedges may give moral support but it will simply prolong the killing. At some point there needs to be compromise and an end to this festering issue.
One would think in your support of indigenous peoples of America that you now own no land, having returned it to the rightful owners long ago without compensation. This would be an act of moral clarity. If you do own land in the US as I am sure Chris Hedges does then you do you consider yourself a colonizer an occupier and an oppressor?
It is very easy for you and those who think like you to assume your position because you literally have no skin in the game.
Peace and justice cannot both be achieved. Compromise is required to end this 80+ years problem,
Oh bad luck. I own no land in amerika. The land I live on was approved for my possession by the local clan. I researched the history of its ownership before purchasing, something I have always done. How about you Hasbara Rick? Do you make sure the land you live on has not been stolen? I sure you don't being a fan of kill, rape & steal.
As for your other spiel, the one problem with 'the ancient right of conquest' is that land is only held by the powerful. The Palestinian population is beating the zionists demographically and the zionist ability to maintain an edge in armaments is rapidly being eroded, something we will all have the unfortunate ability to comprehend should the entity be so foolish as to attack Lebanon.
zionism is a dying cause, young jews around the world want nothing to do with the crass brutality which the entity has displayed time & time again since 1870. Not just committing acts of terror & brutality against Palestinians but also englander police & military along with civilians.
This abortion of an attempt at nationhood is doomed to go the same way as the xtian crusaders of nearly 1000 years ago. They lasted less than a century despite like the zionists, having bribed & blackmail surrounding potentates who also lost their gigs when Salahadin moved against Jerusalem. The zionists may last a little longer but any more than that is impossible when one considers the house of cards of ME states around the entity.
They have been consistently acting against the interests of their people, propped up only by a handful of western states whose own internal economic & social problems will soon distract them from further support for zionism.
Amerika is most definitely in that position and as the citizens are increasingly awake to the fact that their nation is governed by cheap crooks whose devotion to zionism is because of blackmail, bribery & bullying, it would take unreal optimism to believe that they will not turn on the parasite which has been feeding off them for so long.
By the time my children reach my age the entity will be dead and buried, something which no amount of hysterical ranting from zionists can alter.
The only question is will it be a peaceful transition brought about by zionist realisation of the hopelessness of their position, a peaceful transition the same as their model apartheid South Africa or will it be protracted and bloody. That is in the hands of the zionists. Whichever option they choose the eventual outcome is not in doubt.
Since you brought up the Crusades don't forget the repeated invasions of Islam into Europe up through the Iberia Peninsula and through the Balkans. I don't think the incentives of the Crusaders were quite the same as a people subjected to pogroms and near extermination in Europe. So conflating the two many not move in the direction you imagine.
South Africa has different different dynamics as compared to Israel/Palestine. At the time of the end of apartheid, only 13% of the population was white. The number of Arabs and Jews living in the sate of Israel is very different, 21% and 74%, respectively. Conditions are not the same.
Save your projections of the future and revisit them in 20 years. Of course there will be change. It is possible that a new progressive period may be developing in the US for the various reasons you cite. It is more than past time. However, with the pace of technological change it is also also very probable that the future will not evolve as you predict. One thing is clear though, as technology diffuses and people's ability to kill one another increases there needs to be an abandonment of the zero-sum-game. Dwelling on colonizers and oppressors is fashionable but I don't see it as solving problems. Instead it will only lead to more blood shed.
As far as myself, I live on stolen Cherokee land and have no intention of returning it. Given the history of the Levant, I rather doubt that many of those living in that region are any more indigenous than the myriad peoples who have migrated throughout Europe and Asia. Now the aboriginal peoples of Austronesia certainly can lay claim to being indigenous. I doubt White Australians will decamp and move back to Europe.
Far better for the Palestinian leadership to recognize the right of Israel to exist and work towards a two state solution as highly unlikely as that may be.
So in essence, you believe since Jews suffered the Holocaust Israel has every right to commit genocide. I find this belief disgusting and inhumane. You aren’t informed. You are the one pushing propaganda.
I find individuals who support the cynical HAMAS strategy to be inhumane.
Imagine for a moment if you can in the position of an average Palestinian who simply wants to live their life. Now imagine that your "leadership" engaged in a strategic behavior which they knew would result in a devastating military response. One of the roles of a functional state is to protect its citizens. HAMAS employs the citizenry under its control as unarmed combatants in an attempt to sway global public opinion. Imagine that you have lost all your family members and you alone are left with their memories. Perhaps you find comfort that they are now all martyrs existing in Paradise.
Would you support such a leadership? What I see on the news is most Palestinians are trying their best to stay out of harms way.
Chris Hedges can employ his rhetorical skills to conflate Gaza with an open air prison and never mention once that it had businesses, theaters, bakeries, schools, hospitals, universities, playgrounds, and a civil society. Such an admission would be counter to the desired narrative of Israel destruction of Gaza's civil society. A more histrionic conflation would be that Gaza is a concentration camp. All such statements are histrionic rhetoric intended to create allies. As such they enable the continuation of this conflict.
Almost never has Chris Hedges written about the consequences of an ethnic group (Jews) having no agency in the countries where their lived in Europe and Russia. Never having been part of an ethnic group that was systematically hunted and virtually exterminated in Europe, he ignores the feelings of powerlessness and rage that fueled the creation of Israel.
It is very easy for the safe and protected to pass judgment on the powerless and their attempts to gain agency and control over their destiny. This goes both ways in this conflict.
The Right thing to do is compromise and stop this cycle of "justice" and vengeance driven death.
Foolish thinking. First off Mr Hedges has stated Israel has destroyed schools, hospital, universities, etc in Gaza. So, apparently he knows Gaza had them. Do you think an open air prison can’t have such things? Are you so uninformed you don’t know Palestinians were pushed into tiny Gaza by Israel, who stole their land? Do you think conditions in Gaza before 10/7 were wonderful? You continue to cite the historical treatment of Jews to justify Israel’s genocide today. I find this Disgusting and inhumane. You aren’t different from Nazi Germans.
You ignore the reasons for the embargo on Gaza. Suicide bombings with the second Intifada resulted in the conditions that you would call apartheid.
"Do you think the conditions in Gaza were wonderful prior to 10/7?" Anyone informed on this issue knows that they were better than they are today. High unemployment, limited opportunities, and disaffection to be sure; however, there was a measure of civil society. Meanwhile, HAMAS was employing all the funds directed to relief to building tunnels and buying arms. The attacked on 10/7/2023 was long planned, intentional, and strategic. HAMAS was losing control of the narrative and wished to resist the alignment of Arab nation states with the reality of Israel. They have succeeded to some extent among the young and uninformed for now but this Pyrrhic victory will be short lived.
Obviously you support the strategy of HAMAS and its using its citizenry as unarmed combatants, and you call others Nazis. Perhaps you are easily cozened into cults of death wearing the mask of virtue?
Also you presume a state of mind as to my thinking about Israeli's so-called genocidal acts. Brutal definitely but nothing rises to the level of being hunted, delivered to camps, gassed, incinerated, and the resultant ashes dumped into a pond. My thinking is that the creation of the state of Israel was driven by the sense of powerlessness and rage of an ethnic group subjected to 60% extermination from 1939-1945. How morally just of you to dismiss this fact from consideration in this chronic complicated issue (full sarcasm intended). How just of you to imagine that you have simple solutions for the seven million Jews living in Israel today.
Since you support the HAMAS strategy you are a supporter of chaos and continued death wearing the mask of righteousness. How many more deaths will it take to satiate your hunger.
You ignore what Israel did to Palestinians. They stole their land and murdered them in large numbers. Do you know anything about the Nakba, Operation Protective Edge, Operation Cast Lead, “mow the lawn”….or any of the many smaller pogroms committed? You have no idea the numbers of Palestinians killed since 1948 versus Israelis killed by Palestinians. Hint: it isn’t comparable. The Palestinians are an oppressed imprisoned people who have every right to oppose their oppressor. You support the oppressor.
I ignore nothing concerning what Israel has done to the Palestinians. Certainly the current conflict has been educational for all of us. I do find it convenient that people who support the actions of HAMAS as resistance give no weight whatsoever to the root cause of the creation of the state of Israel. For all Chris Hedges empathy for the Palestinians he gives no credence to the reason for the existence of Israel. He was never a member of an ethnic group which was subjected to the Holocaust. It is very easy for him to dismiss that shattering event as immaterial; however, that is solely his opinion.
I support the "oppressor"? I support an end to continued violence and an end to the zero-sum-game played by both sides. You conflate HAMAS and its methods with all Palestinian people. Have you taken a poll or canvased the Palestinian people caught up in this chaos?
I don't find people seeking to live their lives and stay out of harms way by moving so as to avoid being killed as expressing their right of resistance. I see them as wanting to live as best they can. What I do see is a faction within the power elite of the Palestinian people who engage in continued warfare and bringing down retaliation. I see this leadership as achieving nothing other than convincing someone like yourself who has no skin in the game of the righteous of their cause.
What does that solve? Does it mean that no more children will die? Does it mean that HAMAS will not strike at Israeli citizens again and again?
An interesting comment from Chris Hedges during this video concerned India and Modi. The inference was that Modi is watching carefully the unfolding of events in Gaza and whether or not he can get away with a similar treatment of Muslims in his country. There is a concern there certainly because human behavior is remarkable similar across cultures. However, are not the Muslims living in India invaders, occupiers, colonizers and by extension oppressors? Certainly the historical record documents very well the wars fought for the theft of land from the indigenous Hindu population.
Now this all started around 1000 years ago but why should the passage of time matter when it comes to justice?
Good discussion by all. I listen to Medhurst on occasion, but my enthusiasm for him is dampened a bit by his seeming glee at Israeli deaths. I oppose apartheid, am sickened by Israel's (and US's) genocide, war crimes, crimes against humanity. But I don't rejoice over Hezbollah missile impacts or resistance sniper rounds hitting their targets.
Perhaps you should remember Satre's preface to Fanon's WRETCHED OF THE EARTH: "To shoot an European is to kill two birds with one stone: to destroy the oppressor and the man he oppresses at the same time"
In any struggle for liberation you have to take sides. it's that clear/simple: every Israeli soldier taking part in this genocide who is taken out, that's a step in the right direction, which should be welcomed. There is no "both-sides" pseudo-argument to make you feel good about yourself.
I have taken a side. But that does not equate to taking pleasure in killing, or reveling in death.
At some point, one decides to NOT be victim and to fight back against the oppressor. There is no pleasure in being victimized.
Sure, you've "taken a side" - with pre-conditions "how long" or under which "limitations" your sofa solidarity will still be valid.
A typical "liberal" bubble which pops as soon as it gets uncomfortable, for you. Because that's what your kind of solidarity is all about: you/yourself.
The points often raised by Chris Hedges and others are pointless because they will lead nowhere. They are propaganda. They are also not "new news" rather I recall them being reported at the time of their occurrence or as a part of the historical record. Individuals who have had an interest in this region of the world know full well that Menachem Begin was a terrorist. The King David Hotel was bombed. The US Liberty was attacked in the Mediterranean by the Israelis. Chris Hedges and Richard Medhurst portray themselves as having a strong sense of justice. They both certainly have an interest in such an image. I agree with Dan Potter on his criticism of Richard's enthusiasm. All one needs to do is watch some of his postings. Early in this current conflict he enthusiastically called for all Islamic nations in this region to "go all in". This is against a nation armed with thermonuclear weapons. His demeanor and analogy reminded me of a poker tournament.
Doubtless Chris and Richard both have a much better understanding of the Arab world than I ever will. Chris has certainly paid a career price for his opposition to the war in Iraq during Bush2. I don't think one should accept his conflation of the failures of Bush2 policies with this current crisis. The origins are different in many ways. When one considers the common myth-making ability of all tribes, I find his criticism of stories such as "making the desert bloom" as a frivolous point. What is not a myth and what is well grounded in history is the murder of 60% of European Jewry from 1939 to 1945. The root cause of this slaughter was a lack of agency for the ethnic Jews in Europe and Russia.
For Jews, Israel is existential; Jews have agency in the state of Israel. For Palestinians it is property. Different tribes have, throughout most of history, fought over wealth. This fight for one side is existential. In that respect Chris Hedge's conflating the disproportionate deaths of Palestinians with genocide is not supportable. Ethnic cleansing most definitely and certainly disproportionate deaths. However, the behavior of the Palestinian leadership has always been to kill Jews. It is well known that Nazi propaganda had a sympathetic ear in the Arab world.
There can be peace in this region or justice. Both will never be achieved to the full satisfaction of all involved. I find the positions of Richard Medhurst and Chris Hedges to be enabling of further deaths. I find this position which supports justice above humanity as simply no solution at all.
Another zionist talking absolute tosh - yawn.
I totally disagree that the zionist entity which will be brought to an end soon is 'existential' for jews. It became so big in the west after ww2 when DP camps for refugees many of whom were survivors of the nazi concentration camps reached crisis point after western states including both UK and amerika refused to take any more jews from among the Displaced Persons.
Pushing for the state of israel then became an obvious out for the antisemites who inhabited the elites at that time so hundreds of thousands of jews were encouraged to migrate to the middle east for the simple reason that following the push in Spain to get rid of jews along with followers of Islam had caused jews to live in the mid east for 6 centuries without issue.
Incidentally when the holocaust survivors (as zionists still insist on calling post ww2 jewish refugees) arrived in Palestine they were not well received by the zionists already living there and it wasn't until 1960 when ben-gurion made a big deal over the holocaust as a way to 'sell' zionism to the west that they were accepted.
We should not be surprised at this blatant discrimination by zionists. When Meir forced Morocco to send Mizrahi jews to the zionist entity, Mizrahi jews were persecuted. Ethiopian jews, Thai workers and of course Palestinians have all been subjected to child thefts, shocking working conditions and police indifference if not murder and oppression.
The zionist entity has been a racist endeavour from inception.
I am sure that western elites who have been so forward about the morality and honour of jewish zionists will be more than happy to accept them into their nations when it becomes necessary.
People often choose to forget that the largest and most content jewish society in the ME is in Iran. It hasn't been they who have been carrying terrorist acts in Iran, why would they as content citizens appalled at the evils of zionism? It has been Mossad and CIA recruited mercenaries from amongst the MeK terrorist group committing the bombings and other murders in Iran.
All zionists need to do is become more reasonable citizens of their new homes in europe & amerika to discover that the planet is populated by reasonable human beings, after all it was their inability to do that, instead opting to steal land, rape and murder for more than 80 years which caused these problems in the first place. I'm sure that Palestinians, a peaceful people living in this nation for millennia, are reasonable people but like all humans they do push back when oppression becomes so awful.
Doubtless like South Africa post apartheid some will choose to stay whilst others (generally the most intolerant) will leave. Naturally feelings will remain high in the ME for several generations. There will still be jews about this planet for many hundreds of years and I'm certain that most will accept that if they show tolerance for others, that is what they themselves will receive.
Right out of the HAMAS playbook. Chris Hedges did comment on the myth-making for the state of Israel. Above we see myth-making on behalf of the failed Palestinian leadership. The only accomplishment of that leadership has been ethnic cleansing and disproportionate death of Palestinians. Not to mention lies in the above post.
"People often choose to forget that the largest and most content jewish society in the ME is in Iran."
At the time of Iranian Revolution there were 80,000 Jews living in Iran. Now there are 5-8 thousand.
Jews would be perfectly reasonable if Islamic extremists would stop trying to kill them. The irony of all this is that many Arab nations are seeking diplomatic relations with Israel. This was stymied by the HAMAS attack on 10/7/2023.
I'm not going to respond to zionist propaganda such as the claim that there has been a huge fall in the number of jews in Iran. Do real research looking for comments from ME jews about the treatment including the abduction of their children that they suffered in the entity. Also there are numerous reports from Jewish refugees post ww2 both in books and in articles by jews of the discrimination they suffered there until the time of the Eichmann trial.
But most of all if you like statistics look at the entity's own numbers on the number of zionists killed by Palestinians each year compared to the number of Palestinians killed by zionists. There is a difference in favour of zionists of orders of magnitude.
Who are you to question people who have been driven off their land at gunpoint then locked into a concentration camp turned death camp choosing to fight back? International law states that any occupied people have the right to resist their occupation but the occupier has no right to fight back. The entity has stolen land from Palestine, Syria, Egypt and Lebanon yet you still defend them on the basis of some ancient text few actual zionists in the entity 'believe' in.
More dumb zionist propaganda which no longer cuts it out here in the real world. Zionists who really care about people especially jews should take note because whilst the end of the entity is inevitable, the fate of zionists in the entity is not.
Thank you for speaking truth and speaking so strongly for the Palestinians and for all the oppressed.
Thank you I appreciate the compliment as although I am currently most vocal about the desperate situation faced by Palestinians I spent decades fighting for a better deal for indigenous people in the south west Pacific yet Palestine has been a situation of concern for many years despite feeling as many others had pre 10/7/23, that it may have become a lost cause.
I still consider the fact it took such obvious lies by western media about Palestinian treatment of zionists for many to actually learn the facts about the genocidal perfidy of zionism.
The facts about the occupation of Palestine have been available for anyone who cares to look since before 1968 when zionists began their "five day war". Although mony claim 1948 as the time trouble brgan. it has been plain for any human who cared to study it. that the 'othering' of Palestinians began in the 1870's when european banking families began purchasing land from the Ottomans that was not owned by those selling it.
Still we should never be precious about this as most people hadn't personally experienced any of the circumstance which media reports on; so they really had no reason to begin questioning the lies and deceits endemic in western reporting.
Yet the blatant behaviour of our political masters and the elites who control them must alert all of us to the selfish distortions in reports if we are all to make it past the demise of media deceits.
For example I have no doubt that the Palestinian people will defeat those who have stolen so much from them, murdered so many whilst blaming the victims of their oppression, just as the people of South Africa have managed to achieve so much, so far. Rome wasn't built in a day, similarly the construction of decent ethical communities takes time.
This could all be concluded if the existence of the state of Israel was accepted and the attacks on Israel stopped. A two state solution is a compromise as unlikely as it seems.
I find your relishing the continued attacks on Jews and the state of Israel as a evident in your statements above to be inconsistent with a consistent moral compass. You prefer "Justice" (your personal vision of course) and the attendant loss of innocent lives to compromise. You have little interest in peace and employ "justice" as a rational for continued death. Continued death in the unlikely hope that the World has Woken up and will all support the Palestinians. Certainly, the world is awakening; however, this does mean that it will be particularly supportive of Palestine. What a privileged position you must hold; no skin in the game, firm in moral certitude, and very much out of the line of fire.
Frankly I don't think that some Bronze Age texts give any right to the existence of Israel. It is an example of one of Chris Hedge's myths. In the case of Israel its exists by an ancient historical precedent: the right of conquest. You may think that it will be subsumed by the righteous but that is highly unlikely. All the propaganda about the world "waking up" is just that. With this in mind, your position, the position of Richard Medhurst and Chris Hedges may give moral support but it will simply prolong the killing. At some point there needs to be compromise and an end to this festering issue.
One would think in your support of indigenous peoples of America that you now own no land, having returned it to the rightful owners long ago without compensation. This would be an act of moral clarity. If you do own land in the US as I am sure Chris Hedges does then you do you consider yourself a colonizer an occupier and an oppressor?
It is very easy for you and those who think like you to assume your position because you literally have no skin in the game.
Peace and justice cannot both be achieved. Compromise is required to end this 80+ years problem,
Oh bad luck. I own no land in amerika. The land I live on was approved for my possession by the local clan. I researched the history of its ownership before purchasing, something I have always done. How about you Hasbara Rick? Do you make sure the land you live on has not been stolen? I sure you don't being a fan of kill, rape & steal.
As for your other spiel, the one problem with 'the ancient right of conquest' is that land is only held by the powerful. The Palestinian population is beating the zionists demographically and the zionist ability to maintain an edge in armaments is rapidly being eroded, something we will all have the unfortunate ability to comprehend should the entity be so foolish as to attack Lebanon.
zionism is a dying cause, young jews around the world want nothing to do with the crass brutality which the entity has displayed time & time again since 1870. Not just committing acts of terror & brutality against Palestinians but also englander police & military along with civilians.
This abortion of an attempt at nationhood is doomed to go the same way as the xtian crusaders of nearly 1000 years ago. They lasted less than a century despite like the zionists, having bribed & blackmail surrounding potentates who also lost their gigs when Salahadin moved against Jerusalem. The zionists may last a little longer but any more than that is impossible when one considers the house of cards of ME states around the entity.
They have been consistently acting against the interests of their people, propped up only by a handful of western states whose own internal economic & social problems will soon distract them from further support for zionism.
Amerika is most definitely in that position and as the citizens are increasingly awake to the fact that their nation is governed by cheap crooks whose devotion to zionism is because of blackmail, bribery & bullying, it would take unreal optimism to believe that they will not turn on the parasite which has been feeding off them for so long.
By the time my children reach my age the entity will be dead and buried, something which no amount of hysterical ranting from zionists can alter.
The only question is will it be a peaceful transition brought about by zionist realisation of the hopelessness of their position, a peaceful transition the same as their model apartheid South Africa or will it be protracted and bloody. That is in the hands of the zionists. Whichever option they choose the eventual outcome is not in doubt.
Since you brought up the Crusades don't forget the repeated invasions of Islam into Europe up through the Iberia Peninsula and through the Balkans. I don't think the incentives of the Crusaders were quite the same as a people subjected to pogroms and near extermination in Europe. So conflating the two many not move in the direction you imagine.
South Africa has different different dynamics as compared to Israel/Palestine. At the time of the end of apartheid, only 13% of the population was white. The number of Arabs and Jews living in the sate of Israel is very different, 21% and 74%, respectively. Conditions are not the same.
Save your projections of the future and revisit them in 20 years. Of course there will be change. It is possible that a new progressive period may be developing in the US for the various reasons you cite. It is more than past time. However, with the pace of technological change it is also also very probable that the future will not evolve as you predict. One thing is clear though, as technology diffuses and people's ability to kill one another increases there needs to be an abandonment of the zero-sum-game. Dwelling on colonizers and oppressors is fashionable but I don't see it as solving problems. Instead it will only lead to more blood shed.
As far as myself, I live on stolen Cherokee land and have no intention of returning it. Given the history of the Levant, I rather doubt that many of those living in that region are any more indigenous than the myriad peoples who have migrated throughout Europe and Asia. Now the aboriginal peoples of Austronesia certainly can lay claim to being indigenous. I doubt White Australians will decamp and move back to Europe.
Far better for the Palestinian leadership to recognize the right of Israel to exist and work towards a two state solution as highly unlikely as that may be.
So in essence, you believe since Jews suffered the Holocaust Israel has every right to commit genocide. I find this belief disgusting and inhumane. You aren’t informed. You are the one pushing propaganda.
I find individuals who support the cynical HAMAS strategy to be inhumane.
Imagine for a moment if you can in the position of an average Palestinian who simply wants to live their life. Now imagine that your "leadership" engaged in a strategic behavior which they knew would result in a devastating military response. One of the roles of a functional state is to protect its citizens. HAMAS employs the citizenry under its control as unarmed combatants in an attempt to sway global public opinion. Imagine that you have lost all your family members and you alone are left with their memories. Perhaps you find comfort that they are now all martyrs existing in Paradise.
Would you support such a leadership? What I see on the news is most Palestinians are trying their best to stay out of harms way.
Chris Hedges can employ his rhetorical skills to conflate Gaza with an open air prison and never mention once that it had businesses, theaters, bakeries, schools, hospitals, universities, playgrounds, and a civil society. Such an admission would be counter to the desired narrative of Israel destruction of Gaza's civil society. A more histrionic conflation would be that Gaza is a concentration camp. All such statements are histrionic rhetoric intended to create allies. As such they enable the continuation of this conflict.
Almost never has Chris Hedges written about the consequences of an ethnic group (Jews) having no agency in the countries where their lived in Europe and Russia. Never having been part of an ethnic group that was systematically hunted and virtually exterminated in Europe, he ignores the feelings of powerlessness and rage that fueled the creation of Israel.
It is very easy for the safe and protected to pass judgment on the powerless and their attempts to gain agency and control over their destiny. This goes both ways in this conflict.
The Right thing to do is compromise and stop this cycle of "justice" and vengeance driven death.
Foolish thinking. First off Mr Hedges has stated Israel has destroyed schools, hospital, universities, etc in Gaza. So, apparently he knows Gaza had them. Do you think an open air prison can’t have such things? Are you so uninformed you don’t know Palestinians were pushed into tiny Gaza by Israel, who stole their land? Do you think conditions in Gaza before 10/7 were wonderful? You continue to cite the historical treatment of Jews to justify Israel’s genocide today. I find this Disgusting and inhumane. You aren’t different from Nazi Germans.
You ignore the reasons for the embargo on Gaza. Suicide bombings with the second Intifada resulted in the conditions that you would call apartheid.
"Do you think the conditions in Gaza were wonderful prior to 10/7?" Anyone informed on this issue knows that they were better than they are today. High unemployment, limited opportunities, and disaffection to be sure; however, there was a measure of civil society. Meanwhile, HAMAS was employing all the funds directed to relief to building tunnels and buying arms. The attacked on 10/7/2023 was long planned, intentional, and strategic. HAMAS was losing control of the narrative and wished to resist the alignment of Arab nation states with the reality of Israel. They have succeeded to some extent among the young and uninformed for now but this Pyrrhic victory will be short lived.
Obviously you support the strategy of HAMAS and its using its citizenry as unarmed combatants, and you call others Nazis. Perhaps you are easily cozened into cults of death wearing the mask of virtue?
Also you presume a state of mind as to my thinking about Israeli's so-called genocidal acts. Brutal definitely but nothing rises to the level of being hunted, delivered to camps, gassed, incinerated, and the resultant ashes dumped into a pond. My thinking is that the creation of the state of Israel was driven by the sense of powerlessness and rage of an ethnic group subjected to 60% extermination from 1939-1945. How morally just of you to dismiss this fact from consideration in this chronic complicated issue (full sarcasm intended). How just of you to imagine that you have simple solutions for the seven million Jews living in Israel today.
Since you support the HAMAS strategy you are a supporter of chaos and continued death wearing the mask of righteousness. How many more deaths will it take to satiate your hunger.
You ignore what Israel did to Palestinians. They stole their land and murdered them in large numbers. Do you know anything about the Nakba, Operation Protective Edge, Operation Cast Lead, “mow the lawn”….or any of the many smaller pogroms committed? You have no idea the numbers of Palestinians killed since 1948 versus Israelis killed by Palestinians. Hint: it isn’t comparable. The Palestinians are an oppressed imprisoned people who have every right to oppose their oppressor. You support the oppressor.
I ignore nothing concerning what Israel has done to the Palestinians. Certainly the current conflict has been educational for all of us. I do find it convenient that people who support the actions of HAMAS as resistance give no weight whatsoever to the root cause of the creation of the state of Israel. For all Chris Hedges empathy for the Palestinians he gives no credence to the reason for the existence of Israel. He was never a member of an ethnic group which was subjected to the Holocaust. It is very easy for him to dismiss that shattering event as immaterial; however, that is solely his opinion.
I support the "oppressor"? I support an end to continued violence and an end to the zero-sum-game played by both sides. You conflate HAMAS and its methods with all Palestinian people. Have you taken a poll or canvased the Palestinian people caught up in this chaos?
I don't find people seeking to live their lives and stay out of harms way by moving so as to avoid being killed as expressing their right of resistance. I see them as wanting to live as best they can. What I do see is a faction within the power elite of the Palestinian people who engage in continued warfare and bringing down retaliation. I see this leadership as achieving nothing other than convincing someone like yourself who has no skin in the game of the righteous of their cause.
What does that solve? Does it mean that no more children will die? Does it mean that HAMAS will not strike at Israeli citizens again and again?
An interesting comment from Chris Hedges during this video concerned India and Modi. The inference was that Modi is watching carefully the unfolding of events in Gaza and whether or not he can get away with a similar treatment of Muslims in his country. There is a concern there certainly because human behavior is remarkable similar across cultures. However, are not the Muslims living in India invaders, occupiers, colonizers and by extension oppressors? Certainly the historical record documents very well the wars fought for the theft of land from the indigenous Hindu population.
Now this all started around 1000 years ago but why should the passage of time matter when it comes to justice?
What about the attempted genocide being committed by Big "Harma", the banks, corporate- military & state players, via the U.N./W.HO./W.E.F, alliance?
What about beginning an exercise of blatant whataboutery with "What about"? Honestly I remain unsure if your post is serious or an exercise in parody.