The Chris Hedges Report Podcast with Vietnam combat veteran Doug Rawlings, one of the founders of Veterans for Peace, on war, atonement, poetry and returning to Vietnam after 53 years.
The Chris Hedges Report Podcast with Vietnam combat veteran Doug Rawlings, one of the founders of Veterans for Peace, on war, atonement, poetry and returning to Vietnam after 53 years.
Listen now (31 mins) | "I was first introduced to the idea of political poetry on October 18, 1970, about midnight, in an all-night Harvard Square corner bookstore,” Doug Rawlings writes. “A few months before that encounter I had returned from the war in Viet Nam. To say that I was confused and angry is an understatement. I was also somewhat lost. Then on that fateful night I found this wonderful collection of poems by Denise Levertov that captured her journey to North Viet Nam as a peace activist. This was the first serious “discussion” I had read from and about “my” war. And true to what Robert Bly considers effective political poetry, Levertov used the personal to open up the universal. I was captured, and unlike my response to military “service,” I did not want to escape. Instead, I sought out more of her work and other poets and, eventually, began to write my own poems."
I was in the USAF from 1969 to 1975. I was NOT in 'nam. I can only say Thank God! Every one of my friends and acquaintances who did a tour in 'nam were screwed up to one degree or another. Nobody seems to consider what happens to people who have actually been to war. I'm not just talking about their bodies but also their minds.
Perhaps the difference is that most of the soldiers who went to Vietnam were drafted against their will while the ones who went to the middle east believed that they were avenging 9-11 and went with gusto.
Thank you, Chris and Doug, for a very touching interview. All the antiwar efforts I participated in at the time seem totally inadequate in the face of all the suffering of the victims. I should have done more!
Thanks Doug and Chris. The suffering and death of innocents still rages on and on, along with the massive destruction of our once-beautiful and healthy planet. When will we ever learn? Will we ever, ever learn? BTW, I am a "peace veteran" (not a war veteran) and joined Veterans For Peace long ago, as an auxiliary member. Anyone can join this amazing and growing group of real heroes for peace on earth. Become a member today! Help stop these insane, murderous wars of greed and lust for power.
Thank you for this interview. Brings me back to my college days and a particular night a vet who had turned anti-war came to talk to the students. Students left arguing with one another. There were certainly students against the war but also students who supported the war. When I graduated h.s. In 1969, 75% of the graduating seniors went to college--the percentage swelled by the number of men seeking a deferment to avoid the draft. That college night, none of the young men denigrating the speaker and supporting the war had any experience with war but instead of being humbled by the testimony of the soldier who spoke, were arrogant and cruel in their remarks. They are the Baby boomers who later turned our country over to the profit makers--too arrogant to listen--too eager to throw the vulnerable under the bus of profit at all costs. I still remember arguing with one particular student who hated me from then on. He is a millionaire now.
The fact that … was not only the actual originator of the idea and was on fire for the Vietnam War and was able to influence the respective superiors, that this war was then really waged, clearly proves, as has been the case since time immemorial, that the American government leaders – which is probably also the case in practically all other countries on Earth – can be influenced by religious faith and control politics in some way in this regard.
Besides, … also interfered in politics everywhere, and at his religiously devious request, the vengeful … was also harassed and became willing to do what was demanded.
But the fact that the whole thing got out of hand, failed and turned out completely differently from what was intended, that was just bad luck, as we say when something goes wrong.
This happened in the same way as … also the old Bush – who was president of the USA at the time – was persuaded by lies to start a war in Iraq because Saddam Hussein was not a Christian but a Muslim, which did not suit the religious fanatic … at all.
Bush Junior, in his lust for power, then completed what his father could not.
My father Gary Russell was in that war with the army he was s-5 as his rank then he became diagnosed with type -1 diabetes thats a independent shot that has to be instantly shot into my body to control my and his diabetes to live a actual life and it costs me and my 2 brothers to have to shoot this shit into our bodies to the Elete's agenda to control the world with " profit over all else" to the drug companies that are actually making us sicker for the side effects that come out at the end ! Unfortunately i took the 2 Pfizer shots and 1 month after that i got delta-1 strain that wiped me out for 2 weeks ! P.S. i ended up getting vertigo a year ago from the side effects that people didn't see because it was sealed with a lid for 71 years to discover our actions as humans ! 1 trillion dollars to make U.S. even worse sick a black woman and Everybody's ignorance for greed and POWER ! 800 plus bases to Kill and control OIL and LNG thats 6.8 trillion fiat dollars a year to burn 🔥 the rest of us for what Profit? We are all blinded sheep jumping off the cliff like the game lemons on a computer 🖥 ! Thats why they exiledA snowey-man who now lives in Russia for ignorance! Yall know him as well and he lives in a swampy-marsh thats near U,K. I forgot his name thou yall know who he is ! Afghanistan and the soldiers took their own lives because of what all of U.S. have become! 4.4 degrees globally wide is the end and weve extinguished half of all life on earth 🌎 already ! 19.5 years for4.5 trillion fiat Blood oil dollars to control the energy we are already doing break -neck speed !
Dear Chris -- I hope that you will remember me, Kelly Denton-Borhaug from Moravian College, where you came to speak some years ago for our InFocus work on war and peacebuilding. I just listened to the above podcast and was so moved by the poetry. I have been researching and writing about military moral injury for some years, and wanted to let you know about my book on the topic, _And Then Your Soul is Gone: U.S. War-culture and Moral Injury (Equinox, 2021). I would love to speak with you more about this important issue, and was so glad that Doug Rawlings brought it up in your interview with him. Wishing you all good, with many thanks for your work. I especially appreciated recently your interviews with Judith Herman, and your writing about her work. Kelly Denton-Borhaug
Like Doug, I too was drafted out of college, but early enough to serve in Germany. Discharged at the end of ’63, when the Vietnam War was just beginning to ramp up, I remember the sergeants and lieutenants talking excitedly about the field commissions they expected to get in their service there. “A piece of cake,” they thought. Naturally, the more the war raged on, the luckier I felt—but also the guiltier . . . I don't need to explain why. But a fundamental resistance to war churned in my gut, and out of it came poems like these:
Soldier
Came back from Iraq and the war machine,
Reentered the center of the American dream—
Where manic meets panic and brings forth a child
Whose womb is its tomb as the nightmare gets wild.
No saying but praying could help us debrief.
Blood thicker than mortars in midst of the slaughters,
Then calm as a bomb with our sons and our daughters.
Enmeshed in the press of flesh in duress,
Now long for the song of sniper's caress.
At home the soft moan of boredom's revealed
How lies of the hive are slyly concealed.
The burned-out were turned out to make their way home,
I was in the USAF from 1969 to 1975. I was NOT in 'nam. I can only say Thank God! Every one of my friends and acquaintances who did a tour in 'nam were screwed up to one degree or another. Nobody seems to consider what happens to people who have actually been to war. I'm not just talking about their bodies but also their minds.
Consider the influence of Iraq and Afghanistan war veterans on society. I suspect that many become policemen.
Perhaps the difference is that most of the soldiers who went to Vietnam were drafted against their will while the ones who went to the middle east believed that they were avenging 9-11 and went with gusto.
Thank you, Chris and Doug, for a very touching interview. All the antiwar efforts I participated in at the time seem totally inadequate in the face of all the suffering of the victims. I should have done more!
Damn near shed tear
Thankyou
Thanks Doug and Chris. The suffering and death of innocents still rages on and on, along with the massive destruction of our once-beautiful and healthy planet. When will we ever learn? Will we ever, ever learn? BTW, I am a "peace veteran" (not a war veteran) and joined Veterans For Peace long ago, as an auxiliary member. Anyone can join this amazing and growing group of real heroes for peace on earth. Become a member today! Help stop these insane, murderous wars of greed and lust for power.
Thank you for this interview. Brings me back to my college days and a particular night a vet who had turned anti-war came to talk to the students. Students left arguing with one another. There were certainly students against the war but also students who supported the war. When I graduated h.s. In 1969, 75% of the graduating seniors went to college--the percentage swelled by the number of men seeking a deferment to avoid the draft. That college night, none of the young men denigrating the speaker and supporting the war had any experience with war but instead of being humbled by the testimony of the soldier who spoke, were arrogant and cruel in their remarks. They are the Baby boomers who later turned our country over to the profit makers--too arrogant to listen--too eager to throw the vulnerable under the bus of profit at all costs. I still remember arguing with one particular student who hated me from then on. He is a millionaire now.
Contact Report 842
Billy:
The fact that … was not only the actual originator of the idea and was on fire for the Vietnam War and was able to influence the respective superiors, that this war was then really waged, clearly proves, as has been the case since time immemorial, that the American government leaders – which is probably also the case in practically all other countries on Earth – can be influenced by religious faith and control politics in some way in this regard.
Besides, … also interfered in politics everywhere, and at his religiously devious request, the vengeful … was also harassed and became willing to do what was demanded.
But the fact that the whole thing got out of hand, failed and turned out completely differently from what was intended, that was just bad luck, as we say when something goes wrong.
This happened in the same way as … also the old Bush – who was president of the USA at the time – was persuaded by lies to start a war in Iraq because Saddam Hussein was not a Christian but a Muslim, which did not suit the religious fanatic … at all.
Bush Junior, in his lust for power, then completed what his father could not.
https://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Contact_Report_842
The religious fanatic can be seen in my link below.
https://brighteon.social/@Schantz
"Whoever makes you believe absurdities, later will make you commit atrocities." Bumper sticker
My father Gary Russell was in that war with the army he was s-5 as his rank then he became diagnosed with type -1 diabetes thats a independent shot that has to be instantly shot into my body to control my and his diabetes to live a actual life and it costs me and my 2 brothers to have to shoot this shit into our bodies to the Elete's agenda to control the world with " profit over all else" to the drug companies that are actually making us sicker for the side effects that come out at the end ! Unfortunately i took the 2 Pfizer shots and 1 month after that i got delta-1 strain that wiped me out for 2 weeks ! P.S. i ended up getting vertigo a year ago from the side effects that people didn't see because it was sealed with a lid for 71 years to discover our actions as humans ! 1 trillion dollars to make U.S. even worse sick a black woman and Everybody's ignorance for greed and POWER ! 800 plus bases to Kill and control OIL and LNG thats 6.8 trillion fiat dollars a year to burn 🔥 the rest of us for what Profit? We are all blinded sheep jumping off the cliff like the game lemons on a computer 🖥 ! Thats why they exiledA snowey-man who now lives in Russia for ignorance! Yall know him as well and he lives in a swampy-marsh thats near U,K. I forgot his name thou yall know who he is ! Afghanistan and the soldiers took their own lives because of what all of U.S. have become! 4.4 degrees globally wide is the end and weve extinguished half of all life on earth 🌎 already ! 19.5 years for4.5 trillion fiat Blood oil dollars to control the energy we are already doing break -neck speed !
Dear Chris -- I hope that you will remember me, Kelly Denton-Borhaug from Moravian College, where you came to speak some years ago for our InFocus work on war and peacebuilding. I just listened to the above podcast and was so moved by the poetry. I have been researching and writing about military moral injury for some years, and wanted to let you know about my book on the topic, _And Then Your Soul is Gone: U.S. War-culture and Moral Injury (Equinox, 2021). I would love to speak with you more about this important issue, and was so glad that Doug Rawlings brought it up in your interview with him. Wishing you all good, with many thanks for your work. I especially appreciated recently your interviews with Judith Herman, and your writing about her work. Kelly Denton-Borhaug
Steve Advocate Oct 10
Like Doug, I too was drafted out of college, but early enough to serve in Germany. Discharged at the end of ’63, when the Vietnam War was just beginning to ramp up, I remember the sergeants and lieutenants talking excitedly about the field commissions they expected to get in their service there. “A piece of cake,” they thought. Naturally, the more the war raged on, the luckier I felt—but also the guiltier . . . I don't need to explain why. But a fundamental resistance to war churned in my gut, and out of it came poems like these:
Soldier
Came back from Iraq and the war machine,
Reentered the center of the American dream—
Where manic meets panic and brings forth a child
Whose womb is its tomb as the nightmare gets wild.
No saying but praying could help us debrief.
Blood thicker than mortars in midst of the slaughters,
Then calm as a bomb with our sons and our daughters.
Enmeshed in the press of flesh in duress,
Now long for the song of sniper's caress.
At home the soft moan of boredom's revealed
How lies of the hive are slyly concealed.
The burned-out were turned out to make their way home,
Past thunder to wonder why we're so alone.
Drone DRAMs Don't Dream
The soldier suffers memory
Infected by PTSD,
Not warned that merely bearing witness
Could undermine the mind's broad fitness.
Unfazed, the CIA's sleek drone.
No DRAM program computes “Atone!”
Woops! Steve Advocate again -- in the Soldier poem I just posted, I left out the 5th line:
"Our guilt and our grief, increased past belief,"