Patrick Lawrence and Chris Hedges chronicle the decline of mainstream media and the craft of journalism, and the dark psychological reality behind media complicity in schemes of the powerful.
I strongly agree with you Dennis - I too consider Chris a treasure. When I recall the grief and hostility I have endured for at least the past 20-years or so when attempting to share the perspectives of Chris and those like him, I was cancelled, attacked and erased by the majority of good liberals I know, that would not / could not and all but refused to consider something not approved and condoned by MSM and those who claim to be our political leaders. This discussion was indeed incredible.
"Lawrence defines what a journalist is meant to do and be, a definition he attributes to John Dewey. A journalist 'has to stand outside of power and present to readers and viewers the known considerations whenever a question of national policy was at issue, and engender a public debate so people could draw their conclusions and register those conclusions.'"
Think "corporate fluffer" or "smirking Renaissance courtier, but without the classical learning or colorful outfits."
Conformity can be a dangerous thing and conventional wisdom is often an oxymoron. These two exceptional journalists have sought truth rather than the safety of conformity and the material success that is too often the reward for mediocrity. Most of what I see in the media today is propaganda, not journalism. Thank you Patrick Lawrence and Chris Hedges.
Thank you, Chris and Patrick, for a discussion of truth as opposed to the fictionalized myth of our fake national image. It not only increased my respect for each of them but answered lots of questions I hadn't yet formulated in myself that disturbed me. It shined light on my own lack of clarity, my own not knowing, of why and how we find ourselves in these bizarre times, when context is deemed non-essential, when offering perspectives beyond what is accepted in MSM - especially and including NYT, WaPo, NPR, PBS is dismissed. When an honest reporting and presentation of facts generally unknown to the masses, is met with a defensive wall by MSM and by those who eat their typical propaganda with a spoon, there is cause for concern. I was one of them, until I looked beyond their self-serving versions of a false reality intended to maintain the status-quo at all cost, where we are expected to drink at the fountain of illusion and NEVER connect the dots. Real journalists like Chris, Patrick and others marginalized and pushed out of the major outlets of propaganda are what we need to quench our desires for a better world for all of us.
There is no meaning without context. The press used to care about the facts. But have come to understand that facts have no meaning without context. They now stress that they are concerned with "the story." It is a principle of story telling that your story is only as strong as your villain. Most of what passes for journalism is hate literature. There are good guys and bad guys. The question of truth is irrelevant. Thus "unprovoked" makes a better story. Trump makes a better story if he is a dark dark villain. The background of American decline that gives rise to him is not conducive to the deep hate the story requires. The thing about MAGA is that it points out the reality of American decline. In understanding corporate corruption, it is necessary to understand the basic values that are at the core of the institution. Institutions are not corrupted by wicked outside forces, but by internal values.
Patrick mentioned Jung's concept of the Shadow. It isn't just about appearing conventional socially or wanting peer approval. It's the part of each person they most dislike, cannot accept, and deny vehemently. Traits projected onto others who are seen as immoral, wrong, or adversary. There's a collective Shadow, too. Aspects collectively denied and projected onto the world. The U.S. self image is as good, the land of opportunity, guardian of truth and justice, and seeker of peace and democracy. Any critic, group, or nation pointing out otherwise must be an enemy with the opposite traits. Evil. Excusing a lack of effort. Liars. Pro-criminal. Cowards. Anti-American. Sounds familiar, doesn't it?
About Lippmann and the belief we commoners are incapable. The New Deal thought otherwise and so did the Dem party until the neolibs took over. The Robber Barons realized the problem with having decent public education is then an informed majority working class does pesky things like vote and form labor unions. Photos in newspapers and TV footage of napalmed Vietnamese girls didn't help to keep up the morale of the class fighting that war, either. Best never again to let out such harsh facts.
I disagree the eclipse of reason is a main cause of current problems; it's just the opposite. The left brain hemisphere with its linear processing, either/or thinking, desire for control, and dislike for ambiguity has been dominant in the west since the Enlightenment. The right hemisphere, which sees gestalts, appreciates multivalence, communicates via symbols and metaphors, and seeks meaning was relegated to the shadows. Weird irrationalities are to be expected--long repressed contents of the Shadow irrupt in their most unsavory forms. Read //Voltaire's Bastards// by John Ralston Saul and //The Matter with Things (Our Brains, Our Delusions, and the Unmaking of the World)// by Iain McGilchrist.
Incredible interview as always. What a treasure it is to have Chris on this platform.
I strongly agree with you Dennis - I too consider Chris a treasure. When I recall the grief and hostility I have endured for at least the past 20-years or so when attempting to share the perspectives of Chris and those like him, I was cancelled, attacked and erased by the majority of good liberals I know, that would not / could not and all but refused to consider something not approved and condoned by MSM and those who claim to be our political leaders. This discussion was indeed incredible.
"Lawrence defines what a journalist is meant to do and be, a definition he attributes to John Dewey. A journalist 'has to stand outside of power and present to readers and viewers the known considerations whenever a question of national policy was at issue, and engender a public debate so people could draw their conclusions and register those conclusions.'"
Think "corporate fluffer" or "smirking Renaissance courtier, but without the classical learning or colorful outfits."
Conformity can be a dangerous thing and conventional wisdom is often an oxymoron. These two exceptional journalists have sought truth rather than the safety of conformity and the material success that is too often the reward for mediocrity. Most of what I see in the media today is propaganda, not journalism. Thank you Patrick Lawrence and Chris Hedges.
Well stated Nancy - concise and to the point.
So much of what’s being erased today isn’t just truth — it’s memory.
That’s partly what inspired the novel ÆON – When AI Begins to Remember.
It’s fiction, but rooted in everything this article touches — systems built to obey, suppress, and forget.
What happens when even the machine starts to question the commands?
For those reflecting on media, conscience, and control — this book might resonate.
ÆON – When AI Begins to Remember by Cassian Noor.
https://amzn.eu/d/6N5nhzL
Thank you, Chris and Patrick, for a discussion of truth as opposed to the fictionalized myth of our fake national image. It not only increased my respect for each of them but answered lots of questions I hadn't yet formulated in myself that disturbed me. It shined light on my own lack of clarity, my own not knowing, of why and how we find ourselves in these bizarre times, when context is deemed non-essential, when offering perspectives beyond what is accepted in MSM - especially and including NYT, WaPo, NPR, PBS is dismissed. When an honest reporting and presentation of facts generally unknown to the masses, is met with a defensive wall by MSM and by those who eat their typical propaganda with a spoon, there is cause for concern. I was one of them, until I looked beyond their self-serving versions of a false reality intended to maintain the status-quo at all cost, where we are expected to drink at the fountain of illusion and NEVER connect the dots. Real journalists like Chris, Patrick and others marginalized and pushed out of the major outlets of propaganda are what we need to quench our desires for a better world for all of us.
Lovely discussion. Thank you both.
It's great to be a fly on the wall listening to two great journalists talk about their craft...
There is no meaning without context. The press used to care about the facts. But have come to understand that facts have no meaning without context. They now stress that they are concerned with "the story." It is a principle of story telling that your story is only as strong as your villain. Most of what passes for journalism is hate literature. There are good guys and bad guys. The question of truth is irrelevant. Thus "unprovoked" makes a better story. Trump makes a better story if he is a dark dark villain. The background of American decline that gives rise to him is not conducive to the deep hate the story requires. The thing about MAGA is that it points out the reality of American decline. In understanding corporate corruption, it is necessary to understand the basic values that are at the core of the institution. Institutions are not corrupted by wicked outside forces, but by internal values.
Patrick mentioned Jung's concept of the Shadow. It isn't just about appearing conventional socially or wanting peer approval. It's the part of each person they most dislike, cannot accept, and deny vehemently. Traits projected onto others who are seen as immoral, wrong, or adversary. There's a collective Shadow, too. Aspects collectively denied and projected onto the world. The U.S. self image is as good, the land of opportunity, guardian of truth and justice, and seeker of peace and democracy. Any critic, group, or nation pointing out otherwise must be an enemy with the opposite traits. Evil. Excusing a lack of effort. Liars. Pro-criminal. Cowards. Anti-American. Sounds familiar, doesn't it?
About Lippmann and the belief we commoners are incapable. The New Deal thought otherwise and so did the Dem party until the neolibs took over. The Robber Barons realized the problem with having decent public education is then an informed majority working class does pesky things like vote and form labor unions. Photos in newspapers and TV footage of napalmed Vietnamese girls didn't help to keep up the morale of the class fighting that war, either. Best never again to let out such harsh facts.
I disagree the eclipse of reason is a main cause of current problems; it's just the opposite. The left brain hemisphere with its linear processing, either/or thinking, desire for control, and dislike for ambiguity has been dominant in the west since the Enlightenment. The right hemisphere, which sees gestalts, appreciates multivalence, communicates via symbols and metaphors, and seeks meaning was relegated to the shadows. Weird irrationalities are to be expected--long repressed contents of the Shadow irrupt in their most unsavory forms. Read //Voltaire's Bastards// by John Ralston Saul and //The Matter with Things (Our Brains, Our Delusions, and the Unmaking of the World)// by Iain McGilchrist.