Nothing illustrates the inversion of the international and moral order more than the genocide in Gaza and the shipment of tens of billions of dollars of weapons to Israel by Western nations, especially the United States, to sustain it.
I cringe inside my own skin each time I read that the Zionazis just play piracy in international waters, and surrounding nations ho-hum in apparent disinterest. I simply can't seem to get immunized to this attitude of insouciance around Israeli crimes in broad daylight. Someone please step up. Are you all bloody Epsteined?
Well the Amerikan Navy has been engaged in piracy on the high seas for some time now and the vassal states have made no attempt to stop them, so it must be ok.
However Jenny it is the US who has empowered Israel through decades and continues to do so with no checks or balances since money can buy off our politician's best intentions if they ever had them. AIPAC!
Fran; when Israel was first formed about 80 years ago; the west held HIGH HOPES for its future. Today the Palestinians are refugees in their OWN LAND. That God supposedly gave the Jews title to the area several thousand years ago does not invalidate the title of more recent residents. That the west supported the eviction of Palestinians from a relatively small area does not mean we support the same from a much bigger area. In consequence Israel is surrounded by neighbors who are deeply angry about the way the Palestinians have been treated. while both Netanyahu & Trump should be charged with TERORISM.
I think Jenny is thinking how easy they go along with the US, and backs it up right, or wrong. The Iraq war and Tony Blair always reminds me of how much of a lap dog Europe has been.
No question Israel is a racist state, and always has been, since the colonial mindset of Europe are the ones who handed a land of a people, Palestinians, Arabs, to a people who saw it as a land without a people. What kind of surprises me is the reporting of the abuses endured by Palestinian Christians in the West Bank which has been going on for quite some time. They say those abuses are mostly inflicted by settlers, but I think they were given a big head start by the Jewish population who has already taken over much of the land in the West and treat Palestinians with contempt, and have for a very long time implemented a regime of torture, false arrests, where they can languish in the prison without charges.
Wishful thinking........is that not what the US and ERP are doing?
I find it amazing that any country that supports the US is............deranged.
We all know the US is dying and it can inflict enormous damage. But after the weapons run out because they do not have the brains in the US OR earth minerals to make anything including weapons.
I think you and me are similar but you just like to challenge.
Sick of you saying: "The carrot and the stick" it's old.
We can protest outside the embassy all we want but we all know that's an effort in futility. When Ben Gvir is given a birthday cake with hangman's nooses on it, we already know what is likely to happen to these two men. And no one of any importance in the world is going to lift a finger to help. Not even the Spanish or Brazilian governments. Everyone will condemn Israel in the public discourse but that's like slapping someone with a strongly worded letter. In a few more days, these men will be forgotten once Trump comes back to Washington from Mar a Lago and he does something else to draw the spotlight on himself to start another week of mayhem.
We don't have to forget them and we should do what we need to to keep them in the public attention space. If nothing else, at least they will be remembered.
Organize the protests, Chris, and many of us will show up and encourage others to attend. In addition to contacting the Israeli embassy, why not also contact the Brazilian and Spanish embassies. Those countries should be demanding the release of their illegally kidnapped citizens. I don’t agree that these actions would be futile. What would be unacceptable is to do nothing.
Thank you Chris. Zionism is responsible for way too many lives and destruction and it needs to end. This latest crime puts anyone in their crosshairs if they don't like what you say. And Greece knew, allowed, participated and continues to collaborate.
I don't know Thiago personaly but I am in contact with someone who is part of the movement in Brazil, not in this flotilla. They are pressuring the Brazilian government but diplomats seem to prefer procedure to action. How can one country so blatantly kidnap someone and the country of the victim not be allowed to an interview with them without the presence of the kidnappers?
I have been messaging every consulate of each country directly involved in this crime - including Greece, Italy (Saif was in a boat with an Italian flag), Sweden (Saif has dual citizenship) - and even the Chinese embassy because they can hurt Israel wit imports (long shot but I did it)
Chris, what I do not understand is the near unilateral cooperation being offered by western leaders, in spite of their citizens being in violent opposition. How is it that Meloni, Macron, Starmer, Merz, etc are all MORE afraid of Israel than they are of their own people? In Rome and throughout Italy, people poured out into the streets over this - in Germany and Britain are arresting elders who dare to hold up placards.
I'm no expert in history, never was, never will be, but one learns that man through the ages has repeatedly engaged in violent acts, and is very territorial. As a teen I use to console myself that while chimps are cute, and genetically very closely related to us, and share common ancestry they often engage in territorial disputes with fellow chimps that are violent and often deadly like US. Once man developed a hierarchical system our territorial instincts came out in full force, and it's why our behavior so often becomes so divorced from any sense of humanity. In Israel that territorial ancestry we share with our chimp relatives was totally set free and our sense of humanity lost. I know I am being simplistic, but how else can you explain the degree of barbarity one sees, and hears about. Territoriality plays a big role in all of this, and always has. I'm sure after all the violence is over, and if Israel should win it's soulless conquest it's reproductive rate will climb as will it's survival rates.
"The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable… therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty. —Likud Party Platform, 1977" That's chimp talk, and they know they will never obtain the land they proclaim is theirs other then through sheer violence.
Huh? It’s from Jane Goddalls work; https://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2014/0918/Why-are-chimps-violent-Is-it-our-fault. More, the guarding and aggression around the banana boxes did not improve the reproductive success of the dominant males. While they were guarding the fenced in resources (privatizing the commons), the chimps who were doing grooming and childcare got all the action.
What I am saying (and science backs me up) is that aggression among great apes is all about resource guarding - and this is not a ‘natural’ event.
And btw, we are as closely related to bonobos, known for making love, not war, as we are to chimps, whose aggression was wildly overstated by the Leaky’s, and also by the young Goodall, who later recanted her earlier studies.
Yes, we are. You are wrong. We are 98.7% related either way. I don’t even understand the fuck you are arguing about. That we are just ‘naturally’ violent? Chimps are more violent than bonobos. They are way less violent than the Leaky’s believed, and way less violent than Goodall assumed in her earlier banana box experiments (she, herself, confessed what an absolute fuck up this was, and how introducing ‘property’ changed the natural behavior of chimps.) We are ‘naturally’ as promiscuous as bonobos, until capitalism (banana boxes) were introduced. Exactly what point are you attempting to make?
My point is there is absolutely not a fucking thing ‘natural’ about what is happening in Gaza. We are not barbarous by nature, any more than our primate relatives are. To assign our inhumanity to some biological disposition is absolute bullshit. This is about mental illness, not nature.
The intense rage I feel against the United Sates and all its sycophantic lapdogs mostly in the West, is unquntifiable, even though I am not a direct recipient of any of its many terrorist activities around the world. Conversely, my admiration for those like these two brave men who put their lives on the line to oppose the tyrants is equally unquantifiable. In the meantime I will carry on with campaigning on the streets even those it often seems hopelessly inadequate.
It is horrible to read and even worse to have to believe that such atrocities are being committed in the name of religion.While these good people are brutally punisihed the Gazans eke out a most unbelievable existence. Worse than a nightmare. Where are the countries who should be opposing this crescendo?
I don't think they even care to pretend it is about religion. Zionists in "Israel" are very clear about the desire to just eliminate Palestinians. In the US and Europe, it is all a propaganda to justify their own racism and evilness. Even the founder of Zionism didn't care about Judaism.
The torture must be unbearable. Thiago, through the attorneys, wrote a letter to his daughter, as if he expects to not come back. I'm heartbroken. It is on his page in english and portuguese
As many here already know, "rubber bullets" are not actually rubber bullets. They are composed primarily of steel, which is coated with a layer of rubber.
From Amnesty:
"The weapons have led to permanent disability in hundreds of cases and many deaths. There has been an alarming increase in eye injuries, including eyeball ruptures, retinal detachments and the complete loss of sight, as well as bone and skull fractures, brain injuries, the rupture of internal organs and haemorrhaging, punctured hearts and lungs from broken ribs, damage to genitalia, and psychological trauma."
Here in the US, we have a "No Kings Day" every 4-months (co-opted by the Democratic Party), the party responsible for supporting the Zionist genocide right from the beginning - then ran a candidate for POTUS that supported genocide and now wonders how tRump, a convicted felon took office a second time. The start of genocide was the day we needed to take to the streets in the millions to say NO ! We did not - that did not happen exactly when it needed to, hence, here we are today exponentially more in danger on many more fronts, as Israel continues to do as it damn well pleases. I'm not even mildly surprised at anything these Zionist criminals do right before the eyes of the entire rules bases (BS) world - we allow this and get it.
Hi, John. In January of 2024, there was a march in DC specifically about the genocide that drew approximately 400,000. (I went by myself, because no one else I knew cared enough). There were speakers, including Josh Paul, who quit the Biden Administration in protest of its Gaza policy(genocide), Cornel West and Jill Stein. However, there has been no (sizable) Gaza specific protest since (I went to one sponsored by JVP and DSP that drew about 30 people) — and no anti-Iran War specific protest at all — at least not any I know about and none large enough to warrant coverage even in the independent media. I share your feelings, including about Indivisible. I think a lot of us internationally feel this way. I wish more U.S.an’s did. I just posted here a new comment with the joint letter that Brazil and Spain wrote to Israel demanding the immediate release of Avila and Abukeshek, btw — and contact info for the embassies. Our struggle has to be international. All the best to you. You, and other posters here, make me feel less alone, if that’s any comfort. (My comment with the attached letter and contact info disappeared upon posting. Some glitch. Not up to retyping it now. Hopefully, later. The good news is that the two countries are taking action).
Thank you Nancy for your informative post. I am at times overcome by the magnitude of the genocide, the current war against Iran and especially climate change reality - of any number of injustices (homeless population & poverty) affecting my fellow human beings the world over. I tend to withdrawal and find refuge in solitude, hiking, reading and photography. I do find some relief reading posts from others like yourself who take actions that may make a difference. Your words are an inspiration to act to bring light into what can seem like overwhelming darkness. Keep it up and be well sister.
I relate. I lost my partner of many years last year — almost a year ago now. We were in sync. I am beginning to appreciate how rare that is. Am feeling his loss rather acutely today. Anyway, a friend volunteered me for a local campaign, big money on the other side. I expect lots from the Israel lobby, but it’s been hard to track. We’re being outspent 7 to 1. In the meantime, I’m looking forward to some solitude myself, and some hiking postponed until the fall. If you’re not familiar with the UK journalist, Richard Medhurst, I recommend him. You can find him on Substack. Later, I’ll post the letter from the embassies. It made me feel a little better.
So sorry for the loss of your partner Nancy. I can only image that level of heartbreak and challenge. One day each of us will experience such loss, it's the nature of this living experience. 'Everything that has a beginning will also have an ending' . . . paraphrasing an old Buddhist saying. Live well - be compassionate. Bless you . . .
how can the world stand for this endless pain? Is suffering caused by one group of people how do we mobilize against this horror and stop it? It is Unbelievable that in today’s world. With all the technology with all the information with all the everything we are at their mercy, mercy of villains and traffickers. What is the path forward?
My heart aches more and more everyday. How can we allow the Israelis to do all the harmful things we have seen in the last years? How can we continue to live as if nothing is happening? I don't have an answer .
Like Thiago Avila says in his interview, we know we will be intercepted by the Israeli forces, but we will keep coming back, until the Israelis realize that the price for intercepting us is too high, and will let us go through. It takes courage, and a resolve to continue the peaceful struggle.
There is new information from the lawyers: the torture consists of blind fold at all times, 8 hour interrogations, lights to deprive sleep. This is text book tactic to extract false confessions. I fear they will kill them.
I cringe inside my own skin each time I read that the Zionazis just play piracy in international waters, and surrounding nations ho-hum in apparent disinterest. I simply can't seem to get immunized to this attitude of insouciance around Israeli crimes in broad daylight. Someone please step up. Are you all bloody Epsteined?
Well the Amerikan Navy has been engaged in piracy on the high seas for some time now and the vassal states have made no attempt to stop them, so it must be ok.
Me, too.
This is Europe Vin..............it is an aging destitute culture.
Heading for the hills to scream my head off!
However Jenny it is the US who has empowered Israel through decades and continues to do so with no checks or balances since money can buy off our politician's best intentions if they ever had them. AIPAC!
Fran; when Israel was first formed about 80 years ago; the west held HIGH HOPES for its future. Today the Palestinians are refugees in their OWN LAND. That God supposedly gave the Jews title to the area several thousand years ago does not invalidate the title of more recent residents. That the west supported the eviction of Palestinians from a relatively small area does not mean we support the same from a much bigger area. In consequence Israel is surrounded by neighbors who are deeply angry about the way the Palestinians have been treated. while both Netanyahu & Trump should be charged with TERORISM.
ken.maynard7@gmail.com
OF course. EU still thinks backing the US makes sense.
"Are you all bloody Epsteined?"
The world craves American carrot and fears American stick.
I think Jenny is thinking how easy they go along with the US, and backs it up right, or wrong. The Iraq war and Tony Blair always reminds me of how much of a lap dog Europe has been.
Absolutely Fran.
This war is 'racist.' I repeat time and time again.
The west has lost whatever brain they had..........thank you Iran.
No question Israel is a racist state, and always has been, since the colonial mindset of Europe are the ones who handed a land of a people, Palestinians, Arabs, to a people who saw it as a land without a people. What kind of surprises me is the reporting of the abuses endured by Palestinian Christians in the West Bank which has been going on for quite some time. They say those abuses are mostly inflicted by settlers, but I think they were given a big head start by the Jewish population who has already taken over much of the land in the West and treat Palestinians with contempt, and have for a very long time implemented a regime of torture, false arrests, where they can languish in the prison without charges.
Perhaps, but American carrot is turning rancid and its stick is lately hanging pretty limp. Some parts of the world may even be awakening to it.
Don't kid yourself.
Only time will tell. Kind of glad I likely won't see the denouement.
I would love to see the end of the West but like you VIN< I won't be alive.
No. Things are changing Feral.
Yet europe cringes like a dog before its Master.
Hell, the entire point of Charles' visit to the US was to keep the US on-side for The War On Russia.
Feral.................do you not see? I am beginning to think you are a white supremacist.
I am not sure how you jumped to that particular conclusion, but no cat cares about pedigree.
And when you live by your wits, wishful thinking will get you killed.
Wishful thinking........is that not what the US and ERP are doing?
I find it amazing that any country that supports the US is............deranged.
We all know the US is dying and it can inflict enormous damage. But after the weapons run out because they do not have the brains in the US OR earth minerals to make anything including weapons.
I think you and me are similar but you just like to challenge.
Sick of you saying: "The carrot and the stick" it's old.
Agree completely, Vin ! World leaders do not seem to possess a moral backbone. Why do they fear the truth ?
We can protest outside the embassy all we want but we all know that's an effort in futility. When Ben Gvir is given a birthday cake with hangman's nooses on it, we already know what is likely to happen to these two men. And no one of any importance in the world is going to lift a finger to help. Not even the Spanish or Brazilian governments. Everyone will condemn Israel in the public discourse but that's like slapping someone with a strongly worded letter. In a few more days, these men will be forgotten once Trump comes back to Washington from Mar a Lago and he does something else to draw the spotlight on himself to start another week of mayhem.
We don't have to forget them and we should do what we need to to keep them in the public attention space. If nothing else, at least they will be remembered.
Evil.
Any relation to Jamie?
Organize the protests, Chris, and many of us will show up and encourage others to attend. In addition to contacting the Israeli embassy, why not also contact the Brazilian and Spanish embassies. Those countries should be demanding the release of their illegally kidnapped citizens. I don’t agree that these actions would be futile. What would be unacceptable is to do nothing.
Thank you Chris. Zionism is responsible for way too many lives and destruction and it needs to end. This latest crime puts anyone in their crosshairs if they don't like what you say. And Greece knew, allowed, participated and continues to collaborate.
I don't know Thiago personaly but I am in contact with someone who is part of the movement in Brazil, not in this flotilla. They are pressuring the Brazilian government but diplomats seem to prefer procedure to action. How can one country so blatantly kidnap someone and the country of the victim not be allowed to an interview with them without the presence of the kidnappers?
I have been messaging every consulate of each country directly involved in this crime - including Greece, Italy (Saif was in a boat with an Italian flag), Sweden (Saif has dual citizenship) - and even the Chinese embassy because they can hurt Israel wit imports (long shot but I did it)
Zionism is terrorism
Chris, what I do not understand is the near unilateral cooperation being offered by western leaders, in spite of their citizens being in violent opposition. How is it that Meloni, Macron, Starmer, Merz, etc are all MORE afraid of Israel than they are of their own people? In Rome and throughout Italy, people poured out into the streets over this - in Germany and Britain are arresting elders who dare to hold up placards.
What is this about?
Bought and sold they are.
But, so many,and so cheaply?
I'm no expert in history, never was, never will be, but one learns that man through the ages has repeatedly engaged in violent acts, and is very territorial. As a teen I use to console myself that while chimps are cute, and genetically very closely related to us, and share common ancestry they often engage in territorial disputes with fellow chimps that are violent and often deadly like US. Once man developed a hierarchical system our territorial instincts came out in full force, and it's why our behavior so often becomes so divorced from any sense of humanity. In Israel that territorial ancestry we share with our chimp relatives was totally set free and our sense of humanity lost. I know I am being simplistic, but how else can you explain the degree of barbarity one sees, and hears about. Territoriality plays a big role in all of this, and always has. I'm sure after all the violence is over, and if Israel should win it's soulless conquest it's reproductive rate will climb as will it's survival rates.
"The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable… therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty. —Likud Party Platform, 1977" That's chimp talk, and they know they will never obtain the land they proclaim is theirs other then through sheer violence.
Chimps didn't engage in violence until Humans introduced 'banana boxes' as a means to corral them for study.
Essentially, researchers accidentally introduced chimps to capitalism.
I hope its a sense of human operating in your response. My background is in the biological sciences and your can't pull this one off!
Huh? It’s from Jane Goddalls work; https://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2014/0918/Why-are-chimps-violent-Is-it-our-fault. More, the guarding and aggression around the banana boxes did not improve the reproductive success of the dominant males. While they were guarding the fenced in resources (privatizing the commons), the chimps who were doing grooming and childcare got all the action.
What I am saying (and science backs me up) is that aggression among great apes is all about resource guarding - and this is not a ‘natural’ event.
And btw, we are as closely related to bonobos, known for making love, not war, as we are to chimps, whose aggression was wildly overstated by the Leaky’s, and also by the young Goodall, who later recanted her earlier studies.
We are closely related to the bonobos, but they are not in our direct line of descent however the chimps are whether you like it or not.
Yes, we are. You are wrong. We are 98.7% related either way. I don’t even understand the fuck you are arguing about. That we are just ‘naturally’ violent? Chimps are more violent than bonobos. They are way less violent than the Leaky’s believed, and way less violent than Goodall assumed in her earlier banana box experiments (she, herself, confessed what an absolute fuck up this was, and how introducing ‘property’ changed the natural behavior of chimps.) We are ‘naturally’ as promiscuous as bonobos, until capitalism (banana boxes) were introduced. Exactly what point are you attempting to make?
My point is there is absolutely not a fucking thing ‘natural’ about what is happening in Gaza. We are not barbarous by nature, any more than our primate relatives are. To assign our inhumanity to some biological disposition is absolute bullshit. This is about mental illness, not nature.
https://www.popsci.com/environment/chimpanzee-territory-battle-babies/
The intense rage I feel against the United Sates and all its sycophantic lapdogs mostly in the West, is unquntifiable, even though I am not a direct recipient of any of its many terrorist activities around the world. Conversely, my admiration for those like these two brave men who put their lives on the line to oppose the tyrants is equally unquantifiable. In the meantime I will carry on with campaigning on the streets even those it often seems hopelessly inadequate.
It is horrible to read and even worse to have to believe that such atrocities are being committed in the name of religion.While these good people are brutally punisihed the Gazans eke out a most unbelievable existence. Worse than a nightmare. Where are the countries who should be opposing this crescendo?
I don't think they even care to pretend it is about religion. Zionists in "Israel" are very clear about the desire to just eliminate Palestinians. In the US and Europe, it is all a propaganda to justify their own racism and evilness. Even the founder of Zionism didn't care about Judaism.
The torture must be unbearable. Thiago, through the attorneys, wrote a letter to his daughter, as if he expects to not come back. I'm heartbroken. It is on his page in english and portuguese
https://www.instagram.com/p/DX6QvxJDDIn/?img_index=1
As many here already know, "rubber bullets" are not actually rubber bullets. They are composed primarily of steel, which is coated with a layer of rubber.
From Amnesty:
"The weapons have led to permanent disability in hundreds of cases and many deaths. There has been an alarming increase in eye injuries, including eyeball ruptures, retinal detachments and the complete loss of sight, as well as bone and skull fractures, brain injuries, the rupture of internal organs and haemorrhaging, punctured hearts and lungs from broken ribs, damage to genitalia, and psychological trauma."
Moral arguments are wasted on sociopaths. Force is the only language that they understand.
Here in the US, we have a "No Kings Day" every 4-months (co-opted by the Democratic Party), the party responsible for supporting the Zionist genocide right from the beginning - then ran a candidate for POTUS that supported genocide and now wonders how tRump, a convicted felon took office a second time. The start of genocide was the day we needed to take to the streets in the millions to say NO ! We did not - that did not happen exactly when it needed to, hence, here we are today exponentially more in danger on many more fronts, as Israel continues to do as it damn well pleases. I'm not even mildly surprised at anything these Zionist criminals do right before the eyes of the entire rules bases (BS) world - we allow this and get it.
Hi, John. In January of 2024, there was a march in DC specifically about the genocide that drew approximately 400,000. (I went by myself, because no one else I knew cared enough). There were speakers, including Josh Paul, who quit the Biden Administration in protest of its Gaza policy(genocide), Cornel West and Jill Stein. However, there has been no (sizable) Gaza specific protest since (I went to one sponsored by JVP and DSP that drew about 30 people) — and no anti-Iran War specific protest at all — at least not any I know about and none large enough to warrant coverage even in the independent media. I share your feelings, including about Indivisible. I think a lot of us internationally feel this way. I wish more U.S.an’s did. I just posted here a new comment with the joint letter that Brazil and Spain wrote to Israel demanding the immediate release of Avila and Abukeshek, btw — and contact info for the embassies. Our struggle has to be international. All the best to you. You, and other posters here, make me feel less alone, if that’s any comfort. (My comment with the attached letter and contact info disappeared upon posting. Some glitch. Not up to retyping it now. Hopefully, later. The good news is that the two countries are taking action).
Thank you Nancy for your informative post. I am at times overcome by the magnitude of the genocide, the current war against Iran and especially climate change reality - of any number of injustices (homeless population & poverty) affecting my fellow human beings the world over. I tend to withdrawal and find refuge in solitude, hiking, reading and photography. I do find some relief reading posts from others like yourself who take actions that may make a difference. Your words are an inspiration to act to bring light into what can seem like overwhelming darkness. Keep it up and be well sister.
I relate. I lost my partner of many years last year — almost a year ago now. We were in sync. I am beginning to appreciate how rare that is. Am feeling his loss rather acutely today. Anyway, a friend volunteered me for a local campaign, big money on the other side. I expect lots from the Israel lobby, but it’s been hard to track. We’re being outspent 7 to 1. In the meantime, I’m looking forward to some solitude myself, and some hiking postponed until the fall. If you’re not familiar with the UK journalist, Richard Medhurst, I recommend him. You can find him on Substack. Later, I’ll post the letter from the embassies. It made me feel a little better.
So sorry for the loss of your partner Nancy. I can only image that level of heartbreak and challenge. One day each of us will experience such loss, it's the nature of this living experience. 'Everything that has a beginning will also have an ending' . . . paraphrasing an old Buddhist saying. Live well - be compassionate. Bless you . . .
Thanks, John. I hadn’t intended to mention it. Onward . . .
how can the world stand for this endless pain? Is suffering caused by one group of people how do we mobilize against this horror and stop it? It is Unbelievable that in today’s world. With all the technology with all the information with all the everything we are at their mercy, mercy of villains and traffickers. What is the path forward?
My heart aches more and more everyday. How can we allow the Israelis to do all the harmful things we have seen in the last years? How can we continue to live as if nothing is happening? I don't have an answer .
Like Thiago Avila says in his interview, we know we will be intercepted by the Israeli forces, but we will keep coming back, until the Israelis realize that the price for intercepting us is too high, and will let us go through. It takes courage, and a resolve to continue the peaceful struggle.
There is new information from the lawyers: the torture consists of blind fold at all times, 8 hour interrogations, lights to deprive sleep. This is text book tactic to extract false confessions. I fear they will kill them.