With 2 degrees in biology it was my experience that the biological community's orientation in regard to this subject was to teach us how to use the world of nature, animals and plants as a source of information that would benefit people, yes, and maybe more important the corporate world. The courses were not oriented toward any appreciation of animal life, or their innate value, other then providing us a greater understanding of our own. Their lack of interest, or concern is why animals were used exclusively for experimental purposes with little regard to their environment and life as they awaited death, often in experiments that were needless. One course was offered in invertebrate zoology, but not by a professor, but a graduate student, since no professor would deign to teach it. A professor who wanted to share her personal love of birds, and offered a course in bird watching with weekly trips into nature is put down by her fellow professors who feel she is wasting our time with "garbage." This mindset filtered down through the lower grades and was certainly reflected in the curricula. Too often in the past science was used, and allowed itself to be used to benefit the corporate world and has to hold itself accountable in regard to people's ignorance about climate change and the destruction of life forms on this earth. My masters, well, it was different, since marine science was my thing, and the professor in charge had a doctoral degree in philosophy.
yes, GREED is indeed one of the major EVILS we should strive to overcome. it destroys so much, down to the last bit of livelihood. it numbs and will eventually destroy what is left of our hearts and souls. we are already almost devoid of any empathy for so many species - and PEOPLE - on the brink of extinction.
in my EU country, a climate activist who studied to be a teacher won't get a job because she's considered a communist danger, given her statement that we should stop maximizing profits to the detriment of people and the environment. this is how far we've come in my country which, as of 2026 and after a 20year break, will welcome new US missiles on its territory that hosts the largest US airbase in europe.
we need PEACE, not greed! NOW. before the last tree is cut, before the last fish is caught, before the last river is polluted - and WAY BEFORE millions of people are starved to death.
very sad, indeed, to see how little top decision makers care to turn things around.
we do our best to continue raising our voices of dissent and resistance - before there'll be nothing left but sands of desertification to bury our heads in ...
"Two Israeli Embassy staff members were killed in a shooting near the Capital Jewish Museum in Washington, DC, on Wednesday night. The man and woman killed, identified as Yaron Lischinsky and Sarah Milgrim, were a “young couple about to be engaged,” according to Israel’s ambassador to the US.
• The sole suspect was identified as 30-year-old Elias Rodriguez from Chicago, who chanted “Free Free Palestine” while in custody, police said. An eyewitness told CNN the suspected shooter “pretended to be a witness” and waited for police to arrive for over 10 minutes before saying he “did it for Gaza.”
President Donald Trump said antisemitism, “hatred and Radicalism have no place in the USA.” Attorney General Pam Bondi said she spoke with Trump multiple times and that federal agencies will “work hand-in-hand” with DC authorities to do “everything we can to keep our citizens safe.”
I certainly am not justifying what was done to this young couple, very sad, but their deaths are not solely due to the man that killed them, but to our complicity in the Israeli genocide, and our unwillingness to allow the American people to voice their descent, and simply dismiss their moral perspective as antisemitism. I feel like we're going to fall into a moral quagmire that unfortunately will erupt at times into murderous rage.
Yes indeed sad, but I am afraid it is just one of many similar 'incidents' and what will governments do? They will close the noose (censorship/laws etc for all of us) even more! Look at European/German news & commenters - all of them are stoking hate for muslims! What comes next???
They can espouse their self righteousness outrage, yet support the slaughter of tens of thousands of Palestinians, which ultimately gave rise to the death of these two young people. Trump and people like him can verbally assault anti-genocide protesters and define them as anti-Semitic, yet are blinded by their obvious hate and distain for the Palestinian people whose women and children are their favored kill targets. Their hypocrisy is loathsome. In my book they are the ones most culpable in the death of this young couple.
"President Trump is saddened and outraged over the brutal murder of two Israeli embassy staff here in Washington DC last night,” Leavitt told reporters, calling the victims “a beautiful young couple”.
Leavitt added that the Justice Department would prosecute the suspect “to the fullest extent of the law”.
She also pointed to Trump’s efforts against pro-Palestine anti-war protestors, particularly university students, as evidence of his commitment to ending anti-Jewish hate.
“The evil of anti-Semitism must be eradicated from our society,” Leavitt said. “Hatred has no place in the United States of America under President Donald Trump.”
We're becoming more and more authoritarian and using anti-Semitism as the bait.
moral quagmire: we're already deep in it. some feel comfortable, others might be at a loss as to how to work their way out of it. very SAD to think that rodriguez imagined he'd do palestine a favor by killing israelis. [what pressures, frustrations has he endured to take such a radical step?]
the violence - vocal vitriol included - perpetrated daily by people in the highest places PLUS the impunity they 'enjoy', increasingly emboldens those who think they should - and may! - take the law into their own hands. fact twisting, hypocrisy, double standardry have reached unbearable levels. they keep costing not only millions of human lives ...
If I supply the weapons to kill tens of thousands of people in a genocide, even children, many of whom have been killed by bullets to their heads, or hearts, how am I in any moral position to condemn the man who killed those two young people when in reality you are one and the same.
Thank you for this timely discussion, one that I rarely encounter in this culture of denial. I enjoyed the exchange and to see Chris laugh . . . it may even help to loosen me up from the feelings of darkness for the times ahead for everyone.
Thank you, Eiren, for your loving and prescient insights and contributions. A member of my congregation in Lewisville, TX had polycystic kidney disease, as did her two daughters. I am sadly familiar with the disease. Your perspective on life is humbling, hopefully helping to make us all aware of our mortality. Hopefully, as well, such awareness will help engender morality driven by an ethic of kindness toward each other and all things and the planet itself.
I think it is quite questionable as a defensible absolute to say that utopias always fail and even more wrong to say they always become demonic. Every community that identifies itself as a coherent whole is a utopia to those who enjoy life within that community. So to say utopias always fail is to say communities always fail. Is Bhutan a failure? Is every eco-commune a failure? Do you care enough to know this is true? Are all monastic communities demonic? What is your measuring rod, because what I am hearing as a measuring rod is fucking art. I am a musician, and visual artist and good at what I do and have a life much devoted to the arts, but I enjoy fresh asparagus and potato leek soup from my garden as much as any work of art and with the same ultimately passing sense of delight and wonder and even more I treasure making music with family and friends and sharing life in bonds of love. In our hearts I think we are rightly convinced that this love is greater than art even though we are all (in my family) obsessed with art. The truth about art is that it is easier than creating love and justice. Many great artists are abusive assholes. Art is a natural and abundant bi-product of communities where a passion for truth and beauty lives. What we are witnessing in this time is not the death of art, it is the murder of the planetary biosphere by people who own many of the great works of art and remain insatiable, possessed by demonic lusts.
Many communities do not fail via internal forces but are destroyed by the greed and violence of colonizers. Your assertion is too glib. Like some trite truism from a history class. Hutterites have been living in non-violent farm based communal groups since the early reformation. They were intensely persecuted and many were murdered but they are still alive. I was part of a commune that interacted with them.
In my opinion, the demonic part of utopias is their believe that they are perfect socially, politically and morally. That is why many collapse by their own internal pressure imposed to their members to be so perfect. Better to recognize that we all are humans, we err and that our endeavours in group building and everything else are just approximations to our dreamed goals so well portrayed in the arts and letters.
Beautiful interview. My favorite part was the last part, about death and the cult of greed and the self. Even though I completely agree that we need better perspectives on death, I’d still like to hear a straight answer to the question of whether we should or should not pursue life-extension technology that might make it possible to live longer if not forever. I understand that at this point this is only a theoretical question and that it is not technically possible to extend life through technology, at least in any way that would be worth living, but whether we should we tolerate death if it can be abolished or put off seems worth getting into philosophically.
Then we’d have a better sense of whether the technology should be pursued - because it otherwise will be pursued by default even only for the rich. Telling better stories about death alone won’t impede that inexorable technological process which has never been interrupted in the history of the human species if a thing was technically possible.
Emotive environmentalism is a partial picture at best, a snapshot of circumstances that feed a narrative over the breadth and scope of ecosystem resilience. Granted depletion and destruction may cross bio-boundaries, but the lack of full ecological disclosure is disheartening.
I concur with Grok's overall assessment:
"For readers seeking emotional resonance and awareness, her work is powerful; for those seeking rigorous scientific analysis, it could be supplemented with primary sources or more technical depth."
O God, whose days are without end, and whose mercies cannot be numbered: make us deeply sensitive to the shortness and uncertainty of human life, and let thy Holy Spirit lead us through this present world in holiness and righteousness all the days of our life; that when we have served thee in our day and generation, we may be received by thee, our Father, having the testimony of a good conscience, in the communion of thy church, in the confidence of a certain faith, in the comfort of a holy hope, in favour with thee, our God, and in perfect charity with all mankind; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen
"In Duckland, Donald reigns supreme, With policies that seem like a dream. He bans all science, says, "Quack is fact!" But Duckland’s progress? It’s getting cracked.
The ducks protest, they flap and squawk, "Without science, we’re just a laughing stock!" Donald shrugs, says, "Feathers will fly, Who needs logic when you can deny?"
But soon the ponds begin to dry, The ducklings ask, "Why, oh why?" Turns out ignoring science was foul play, And Duckland’s future waddled away."
This fable was created by Mac, my AI assistant as a warning to all our climate deniers.
With 2 degrees in biology it was my experience that the biological community's orientation in regard to this subject was to teach us how to use the world of nature, animals and plants as a source of information that would benefit people, yes, and maybe more important the corporate world. The courses were not oriented toward any appreciation of animal life, or their innate value, other then providing us a greater understanding of our own. Their lack of interest, or concern is why animals were used exclusively for experimental purposes with little regard to their environment and life as they awaited death, often in experiments that were needless. One course was offered in invertebrate zoology, but not by a professor, but a graduate student, since no professor would deign to teach it. A professor who wanted to share her personal love of birds, and offered a course in bird watching with weekly trips into nature is put down by her fellow professors who feel she is wasting our time with "garbage." This mindset filtered down through the lower grades and was certainly reflected in the curricula. Too often in the past science was used, and allowed itself to be used to benefit the corporate world and has to hold itself accountable in regard to people's ignorance about climate change and the destruction of life forms on this earth. My masters, well, it was different, since marine science was my thing, and the professor in charge had a doctoral degree in philosophy.
yes, GREED is indeed one of the major EVILS we should strive to overcome. it destroys so much, down to the last bit of livelihood. it numbs and will eventually destroy what is left of our hearts and souls. we are already almost devoid of any empathy for so many species - and PEOPLE - on the brink of extinction.
in my EU country, a climate activist who studied to be a teacher won't get a job because she's considered a communist danger, given her statement that we should stop maximizing profits to the detriment of people and the environment. this is how far we've come in my country which, as of 2026 and after a 20year break, will welcome new US missiles on its territory that hosts the largest US airbase in europe.
we need PEACE, not greed! NOW. before the last tree is cut, before the last fish is caught, before the last river is polluted - and WAY BEFORE millions of people are starved to death.
Julia, sad, really sad how things are in this world.
thank you for your feedback, fran.
very sad, indeed, to see how little top decision makers care to turn things around.
we do our best to continue raising our voices of dissent and resistance - before there'll be nothing left but sands of desertification to bury our heads in ...
Just another piece of craziness.
"Two Israeli Embassy staff members were killed in a shooting near the Capital Jewish Museum in Washington, DC, on Wednesday night. The man and woman killed, identified as Yaron Lischinsky and Sarah Milgrim, were a “young couple about to be engaged,” according to Israel’s ambassador to the US.
• The sole suspect was identified as 30-year-old Elias Rodriguez from Chicago, who chanted “Free Free Palestine” while in custody, police said. An eyewitness told CNN the suspected shooter “pretended to be a witness” and waited for police to arrive for over 10 minutes before saying he “did it for Gaza.”
President Donald Trump said antisemitism, “hatred and Radicalism have no place in the USA.” Attorney General Pam Bondi said she spoke with Trump multiple times and that federal agencies will “work hand-in-hand” with DC authorities to do “everything we can to keep our citizens safe.”
I certainly am not justifying what was done to this young couple, very sad, but their deaths are not solely due to the man that killed them, but to our complicity in the Israeli genocide, and our unwillingness to allow the American people to voice their descent, and simply dismiss their moral perspective as antisemitism. I feel like we're going to fall into a moral quagmire that unfortunately will erupt at times into murderous rage.
Yes indeed sad, but I am afraid it is just one of many similar 'incidents' and what will governments do? They will close the noose (censorship/laws etc for all of us) even more! Look at European/German news & commenters - all of them are stoking hate for muslims! What comes next???
They can espouse their self righteousness outrage, yet support the slaughter of tens of thousands of Palestinians, which ultimately gave rise to the death of these two young people. Trump and people like him can verbally assault anti-genocide protesters and define them as anti-Semitic, yet are blinded by their obvious hate and distain for the Palestinian people whose women and children are their favored kill targets. Their hypocrisy is loathsome. In my book they are the ones most culpable in the death of this young couple.
"President Trump is saddened and outraged over the brutal murder of two Israeli embassy staff here in Washington DC last night,” Leavitt told reporters, calling the victims “a beautiful young couple”.
Leavitt added that the Justice Department would prosecute the suspect “to the fullest extent of the law”.
She also pointed to Trump’s efforts against pro-Palestine anti-war protestors, particularly university students, as evidence of his commitment to ending anti-Jewish hate.
“The evil of anti-Semitism must be eradicated from our society,” Leavitt said. “Hatred has no place in the United States of America under President Donald Trump.”
We're becoming more and more authoritarian and using anti-Semitism as the bait.
Absolutely right and VERY depressing! Don't know where to go with my sadness about this lunacy - we are so lost!
moral quagmire: we're already deep in it. some feel comfortable, others might be at a loss as to how to work their way out of it. very SAD to think that rodriguez imagined he'd do palestine a favor by killing israelis. [what pressures, frustrations has he endured to take such a radical step?]
the violence - vocal vitriol included - perpetrated daily by people in the highest places PLUS the impunity they 'enjoy', increasingly emboldens those who think they should - and may! - take the law into their own hands. fact twisting, hypocrisy, double standardry have reached unbearable levels. they keep costing not only millions of human lives ...
If I supply the weapons to kill tens of thousands of people in a genocide, even children, many of whom have been killed by bullets to their heads, or hearts, how am I in any moral position to condemn the man who killed those two young people when in reality you are one and the same.
Thank you for this timely discussion, one that I rarely encounter in this culture of denial. I enjoyed the exchange and to see Chris laugh . . . it may even help to loosen me up from the feelings of darkness for the times ahead for everyone.
Thank you, sir. Great to see you smile and laugh, even if it takes a discussion about mortality and our denial of it to bring that out.
Damn! Now I have to read Moby Dick.
Cheers, my friend.
Thank you, Eiren, for your loving and prescient insights and contributions. A member of my congregation in Lewisville, TX had polycystic kidney disease, as did her two daughters. I am sadly familiar with the disease. Your perspective on life is humbling, hopefully helping to make us all aware of our mortality. Hopefully, as well, such awareness will help engender morality driven by an ethic of kindness toward each other and all things and the planet itself.
Amen!
I think it is quite questionable as a defensible absolute to say that utopias always fail and even more wrong to say they always become demonic. Every community that identifies itself as a coherent whole is a utopia to those who enjoy life within that community. So to say utopias always fail is to say communities always fail. Is Bhutan a failure? Is every eco-commune a failure? Do you care enough to know this is true? Are all monastic communities demonic? What is your measuring rod, because what I am hearing as a measuring rod is fucking art. I am a musician, and visual artist and good at what I do and have a life much devoted to the arts, but I enjoy fresh asparagus and potato leek soup from my garden as much as any work of art and with the same ultimately passing sense of delight and wonder and even more I treasure making music with family and friends and sharing life in bonds of love. In our hearts I think we are rightly convinced that this love is greater than art even though we are all (in my family) obsessed with art. The truth about art is that it is easier than creating love and justice. Many great artists are abusive assholes. Art is a natural and abundant bi-product of communities where a passion for truth and beauty lives. What we are witnessing in this time is not the death of art, it is the murder of the planetary biosphere by people who own many of the great works of art and remain insatiable, possessed by demonic lusts.
Many communities do not fail via internal forces but are destroyed by the greed and violence of colonizers. Your assertion is too glib. Like some trite truism from a history class. Hutterites have been living in non-violent farm based communal groups since the early reformation. They were intensely persecuted and many were murdered but they are still alive. I was part of a commune that interacted with them.
In my opinion, the demonic part of utopias is their believe that they are perfect socially, politically and morally. That is why many collapse by their own internal pressure imposed to their members to be so perfect. Better to recognize that we all are humans, we err and that our endeavours in group building and everything else are just approximations to our dreamed goals so well portrayed in the arts and letters.
Thank you for this very interesting discussion, Chris -- it's the pivot we need.
Beautiful interview. My favorite part was the last part, about death and the cult of greed and the self. Even though I completely agree that we need better perspectives on death, I’d still like to hear a straight answer to the question of whether we should or should not pursue life-extension technology that might make it possible to live longer if not forever. I understand that at this point this is only a theoretical question and that it is not technically possible to extend life through technology, at least in any way that would be worth living, but whether we should we tolerate death if it can be abolished or put off seems worth getting into philosophically.
Then we’d have a better sense of whether the technology should be pursued - because it otherwise will be pursued by default even only for the rich. Telling better stories about death alone won’t impede that inexorable technological process which has never been interrupted in the history of the human species if a thing was technically possible.
Emotive environmentalism is a partial picture at best, a snapshot of circumstances that feed a narrative over the breadth and scope of ecosystem resilience. Granted depletion and destruction may cross bio-boundaries, but the lack of full ecological disclosure is disheartening.
I concur with Grok's overall assessment:
"For readers seeking emotional resonance and awareness, her work is powerful; for those seeking rigorous scientific analysis, it could be supplemented with primary sources or more technical depth."
There is always more to nature than you realize.
O God, whose days are without end, and whose mercies cannot be numbered: make us deeply sensitive to the shortness and uncertainty of human life, and let thy Holy Spirit lead us through this present world in holiness and righteousness all the days of our life; that when we have served thee in our day and generation, we may be received by thee, our Father, having the testimony of a good conscience, in the communion of thy church, in the confidence of a certain faith, in the comfort of a holy hope, in favour with thee, our God, and in perfect charity with all mankind; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen
"In Duckland, Donald reigns supreme, With policies that seem like a dream. He bans all science, says, "Quack is fact!" But Duckland’s progress? It’s getting cracked.
The ducks protest, they flap and squawk, "Without science, we’re just a laughing stock!" Donald shrugs, says, "Feathers will fly, Who needs logic when you can deny?"
But soon the ponds begin to dry, The ducklings ask, "Why, oh why?" Turns out ignoring science was foul play, And Duckland’s future waddled away."
This fable was created by Mac, my AI assistant as a warning to all our climate deniers.
: