25 Comments
User's avatar
Fran's avatar

God, do people make a buck off Trump with their books and speeches on Fascism. It was in play during his first term in office and once again the same old story. I'm sick of it!!!!!!!!!!!!! Want to take a hard look at Fascism talk about what's going on in Gaza, and remember the genocide was implemented by Netanyahu during the Biden administration, a democrat who was going to build the biggest wall if he ever became president, but people forget he said that. He was for integration of schools, but no busing, so no he wasn't. He was vice president under Obama when they implemented a coup to remove a pro-Russian president from office in Ukraine, and not to forget as vice president under Obama they implemented Timber Sycamore to bring down Assad, and of course the destruction of Libya etc, etc. No talk about neocons, now fully on the side of democrats and their drive for world power?

Fran's avatar

However, I don't mean to defend Trump's disgusting position in regard to Palestine, and for that I hope both he, Biden, Netanyahu and the rest of those who have supported this suffer the consequences of their genocidal acts in Gaza and elsewhere.

Howard Wilson's avatar

Interesting that The Guardian just ran a story that Stanley is leaving Yale and going to Canada.

Darlene Coffman's avatar

The only program of Chris Hedges that has not only failed to inspire me, but has, in fact, disturbed me. Something else is going on here.

WWII's avatar

This professor, Jason Stanley, appears to be quite conflicted and of troubling character.

Right off the bat he feels compelled to identify himself as "Jewish" in order to pontificate upon the roots and manifestations of Fascism. Why? He later defines himself as a "Jewish American" while entertaining the topic-- which I find even more bizarre. Should I take that to mean one must identify oneself as an African American before speaking to the public? How about one defining themselves as "Cuban American". Both of those qualifiers don't even reference religion--they simply reference ethnicity---and it still seems odd to me. Put religion and state together to define yourself to the public... and it just seems plain weird. Do all these African American and Cuban Americans hold dual citizenship that require a qualifier in order to maintain their current statesmanship? I doubt it. So why would invoking your religion with your statesmanship be any more of a requirement to define yourself to the public? Catholics don't do it. Baptists don't do it. Pagans don't do it. Buddhists don't do it. So why do Jews?

The cognitive dissonance Mr. Stanley displays seems to be typical of Jews...and it seems to revolve around a conflict of identifying oneself with their Jewish religion and their Statesmanship compulsively and simultaneously. Of course, their religious affiliation is priority. Why? I don't know of another religion that asserts itself so formally, integrally and compulsively along with their statesmanship. So, how about a Palestinian self identifying as an Israeli? They exist, of course. Yet I never hear of one that self identifies as a 'Muslim Israeli' first and foremost. How about the case for identifying oneself as a Muslim Israeli? Do Islam adherent Israelis garner the same rights as Jews in Israel? In other words, does a Palestinian Israeli garner the same rights as a Jew in Israel? Hardly. Does such an individual even have a right (in the eyes of the State of Israel) to exist? At the current rate of extermination by the IDF, it doesn't seem so. I believe these are legitimate questions and concerns that I see rarely, if ever, discussed. If we are ever going to end the Palestinian holocaust (before all are exterminated) or make progress on the so called "Middle East Conflict", than I believe these basic questions must be discussed AND be resolved. I am open to any reasonable explanation or answers to these questions. Mr. Stanley provides none. In fact, admits he has none.

I believe contemplating this cognitive dissonance strikes to heart of the problem with folks weaponizing the term "antisemitism"--for political rather than religious purposes. Subsequently this dog whistle of a term has only become divisive rather than protectionist. Further, it seems to me that the State of Israel acts not like a democracy that promotes civil rights, but rather like a theocratic regime--no different in this respect than, say, Iran-- that abuses civil rights. However, the abuses in a fascist society always seems to end where some are treated more equal than others. Also, the Israeli State feels compelled to self identify with a particular flavor of their Jewish religion in order to give religious credence to its apartheid laws which imposes a fascist occupation of its Palestinian citizens. They call it Zionism. Seems to have the same fascist ring as 'Nazism'. Yet this unique brand of fascism adds a layer of religious dogma thereby propagating a type of cognitive dissonance within its adherents who feel compelled to associate themselves religiously (first and foremost) before the State in which they reside. Is this how the diaspora is designed to expand? Does this somehow make it more acceptable or palatable?

The absurdity of a Jew having to assert their Jewishness first and foremost in the United States is telling. For example, there are plenty of Africans who are citizens of Canada. Yet I do not hear them speak of themselves as "African Canadian" in order to make a point. Come to think of it, I have yet to hear of Jews in Canada speaking of themselves as Jewish Canadians first and foremost. Why is this? Is it simply that I don't live in Canada...and, if I did, would I hear it often? I can say that I've visited a populous part of Canada (Montreal) and never heard it. Did I just happen to miss it? More to the point, I understand from another comment in this discussion of O.P. that Mr. Stanley is moving to Canada. He appears to believe Canada is the last bastion of Democracy (I strongly disagree) so it would not be surprising, if true. Nonetheless, if he does move there, will he no longer be a "Jewish American", but rather a 'Jewish Canadian'? It seems his religious identity is apriori to his state identity. I wonder why that is? It begs the question of how devoted an American Mr. Stanley is, was...or ever could be. I believe this question cuts to the core of the cause of the Jewish Holocaust during WWII. It is probably also rooted in the reason the Palestinian Holocaust is taking place today.

Myself, I simply identify as an 'American'. My religion-- or any of its iconography-- is not contained within my passport, driver's license, voter registration card, or displayed on the military uniforms and armaments that I pay for to protect me. In fact, my religious affiliation has nothing to do with the basis for my State identity at all. Hopefully (and in order to avoid the same cognitive dissonance Mr. Stanley displays) it never will.

rgarnett's avatar

Very good comment. My thinking exactly. I'm sick of hearing about Jews. We don't have Seventh Day Adventists, Presbytarians, Mormons and Jehova's Witesses banging on about themselves all the time. I don't like any organised religions. I am a Christian but I'm not giving everyone else the shits talking about it as if I'm something special.

Phil Kind Man's avatar

An excellent interview, discussing many of the major elements of fascism/authoritarianism and how it applies to our current situation. The United States has always had a veneer of democracy with an underbelly of fascism/authoritarianism which has again come to the surface in a stronger manifestation and it is going to cause a great deal of harm in our country and in the world.

Shahid Buttar's avatar

This is a crucially important discussion. To what extent might it indulge some components of fascism by overlooking the extent to which they were consolidated well before even the first Trump administration? https://shahidbuttar.substack.com/p/fears-of-a-fascist-future-overlook

The experiences of indigenous and Black Americans reveal the longstanding establishment of fascism from which many (particularly white Americans, and those with property) were occasionally exempt. https://shahidbuttar.substack.com/p/indigenous-lives-matter-from-north

What Trump ultimately represents may simply be the removal of those exemptions.

Fran's avatar

When your talking about blacks and how we treated them, slaves, don't forget our Indian land grab. Also don't forget that Poles and Italians, and all those who came from southern and eastern Europe who were perceived as less then blacks and were treated as such. In the first world war, who fought? Yes those from the east and south of Europe and Blacks. We have a long history of multiple abuses that caused the death of millions. When Trump is in office one might think we had a glorious history before he arrived on the scene and were headed in the right direction. If it wasn't for him, we wouldn't have to be dealing with the end times. Even old Bernie has decided to become a therapist and gives a chilling account of Trump's mental health status. Then he probably met up Waters and went to lunch. They deserve each other.

George Hennessy's avatar

Naziism was driven by Hitlers anger for the loss of the First World War and the decisions made at Versailles and his own desire for glory and hatred for the Jewish people, Trump is driven by greed and his own self centered egotism and need for approval and hatred for anyone who opposes him and for his legal felony convictions, which he Denys. May God have mercy on us!!!

SB Harstad's avatar

Thank you for this wonderful, educational and intellectual conversation with Professor Stanley. I agree that citizen Solidarity and knowledge is necessary to defeat this extremist, fascist coup. However, I disagree that Trump and his gangsters are intellectuals. A college degree does not make a person an Intellectual. Intellectuals are people who have rational thoughts, and obviously Trump and his criminal gang of fascists are not rational thinkers. Their think tanks are only criminal psychopathic stink tanks.

potshot's avatar

Nice to hear the professor refer to Trump's kleptocracy as a "regime" rather than an administration. The best of political commentators absent-mindedly refer to the Trump Kleptocracy as an "administration." That word gives too much credit to the Trump Gang. Also, don't forget Genocide Joe wrote Clinton's Crime Bill that exploded the US prison population.

Phil Kind Man's avatar

From Stanley’s analysis fascism/autoritarianism can occur on the right or the left.

Faten Alawadhi's avatar

What doest that mean: "Universities are the most Jewish Institutions"?

Also, whay isn't there any mention of the fact that the attacks on universities in the US at present are because of their support of the Palestinians and condemnation of Israel and Zionism? can't remember any other time when universities were so viciously attacked and threatened with withholding funds.

Anorher point, this whole argument about how fascism workes applies perfectly to Israel and Zionism. Whay wasn't that mentioned, with the excption of a brief reference to Zioinst colonialism.

Mike Rube's avatar

The weakest link in maintaining the integrity of US Universities seems to be the boards of trustees. How has this weakness happened?

George Hennessy's avatar

This is what is really going on!!! And so few really see it!!! God help us!!!!.

Dick Burkhart's avatar

Stanley misses the fact that fascist-type rewriting of history to serve authoritarian governance, historically, has come from the Left, as well as the Right. Think Communist Russia and Maoist China, along with their gulags and struggle sessions. And the US today is no exception. In fact conservative views have long dominated public education and public history in the US, as documented by Howard Zinn. That is, what Trump is up to may be extreme by the standards of recent decades but it is not new.

What Stanley neglects is the very recent rewriting of US history for ideological / authoritarian purposes coming from the Left. A well known example is the 1619 project, where Nicole Hannah Jones attempted to rewrite certain episodes in the history of racism. See the excellent book, written by Marxist scholars: "The New York Times' 1619 Project and the Racialist Falsification of History", where Lincoln is accused of being a racist and the Revolutionary War as fought to preserve slavery. Jones dismissed the work of a strong cadre of historians because she identified them as "white", even though a black scholar backed them up.

She also tries to create the impression that US-style racism sprung up immediately with the first plantations and first ships carrying captives from Africa. But historians, including black historians, know that the original black captives worked side by side with indentured servants for many years, and that the institutional racism that we remember today only became dominant after Bacon's rebellion. In that insurrection, "blacks," "whites", and "reds" fought as allies against plantation owners and English rule. Jones also down-played black heroes like Frederick Douglas and MLK because they preached and practiced black and white together instead of separatism or antagonism.

Such anti-white rewriting of history has become fashionable on the Left because it is being taught and promoted by the whiteness studies of Critical Race Theory, which has become a dominant influence in the US educational system. The consequent backlash opened a big door for Trump to exploit. Moreover, the cancel culture spawned by this anti-white ideology has spread far beyond academia. It is no accident that US-style cancel culture has stink of fascism. To the point: Hitler's fascism was centered around a racial hierarchy (Aryans over Jews), while the whiteness moral hierarchy places people of color at the top with all European-types at the bottom.

I've been an eyewitness to this "woke fascism", including all its anti-white racial slurs (false claims of racism and white supremacy culture) and kangaroo courts (removing ministers from 'fellowship' without due process), in my own national church, the Unitarian Universalist Association. In fact, the 2017 takeover of the UUA by these forces led directly to an authoritarian regime which not only promoted an insidious ideology of anti-white racism through a variety of programming but also openly tolerated, and sometimes participated in, racially motivated persecution targeting social justice-oriented ministers and lay leaders to dared to question the fascist ideology and practices. The back story is white guilt.

More recently these attitudes and practices have been extended to other identities, adding gender ideology to racial ideology, while keeping the same cancel culture / fascist tactics and mindset. As a lay leader, I've seen unethical behavior I would never have imagined in a liberal church, just as most of us never imagined we'd have president like Trump. Quite a number of UU churches have either split up or had major losses of membership, and a prominent dissident minister - one of those targeted - has spurred the formation a new North American Unitarian Association to pick up the ball where it has been jettisoned by the UUA. Only after thousands have left or been alienated as the UUA begun to moderate its strident agenda.

Personally, I view all this as a symptom of "limits to growth" - an incipient civilizational collapse, with Gaia herself in revolt against the big egos her most prominent species.

Jacob Boas's avatar

https://www.laprogressive.com/progressive-issues/trumpism-as-a-doctrine-of-rancor

In light of Erasing History, you may be interested in Trumpism as a Doctrine of Rancor, which appeared today in the LAProgressive. The piece is by me, historian subscriber and contributor.

Fran's avatar

An article written by someone who hates Trump. My opinion? It sucked. Not to mention that during his first time in office it was the same script, he's a fascist. It's getting to be very boring. Chomsky was always deriding Trump, and said he's the worst criminal in history, but when the possibility of war between Ukraine and Russia started up he said Trump was the only statesman who could stop it.

Kathleen McCroskey's avatar

I would say, "Statesman" using the term very loosely, as being the only one lacking enough self-control to think himself capable of the task, but with absolutely no comprehension of a workable solution, which should include, as Jeffrey Sachs has decided (long after me) that there needs to be an area of actually neutral nations between US bases and Russia. And, there are only two people in the world deserving of actual hate, while it is contrary to meaningful diplomacy to demean the other parties to negotiations. The tRump regime is composed of dogie bags. Or is it DOGE-bags.

Fran's avatar

Your argument is with Chomsky, not me, since it was his statement, but it seems a real possibility. Biden was under the thumb of neocons who wanted a proxy war with Russia using Ukrainian lives to accomplish that task. I can definitely say that is not Trump's position. Whether he's successful remains unclear. Now for his , or should I say America's support for the genocide in Gaza it is something that must be condemned as well as extending that war into Yemen and beyond. Implementing black and white thinking in regard to Trump, or anyone else corrupts perceptions and you provide a perfect example of that when you dismiss him and the people who work with him as douchebags. It is non productive and childish.

Kathleen McCroskey's avatar

Sorry, it's an illegitimate regime. Mary Trump provides the best analysis. The Signal comedy-of-errors is another example, and more will emerge every day. Enjoy! Over and out.

Fran's avatar

Over and out, yes. But, it's interesting you choose someone to support your position who can in no way offer an objective perspective.I guess her book deals and the money she made off of Trump hate wasn't enough for her, since she claims she and her family were cheated out of tens of millions. However not surprising you would choose her to back up your hate for the man.

User's avatar
Comment deleted
Mar 27, 2025
Comment deleted
WWII's avatar

Its was an interview that went nowhere... and like Fran says, "sucked".

Speaking of going nowhere, I hope Mr. Stanley has actually quit Yale and has gone to Canada. I find it unbelievable that the guy worked for Yale since 2013 and it took him that long to figure out all the "nefarious" operations he rails about in this interview which likely led him to his decision to quit. Doesn't seem too bright for a philosophy professor. That's called, in my opinion, being part of the problem, not the solution.

My guess is he will seek (and find) a professorship in Canada and continue being part of the problem there. But I'd rather them have him than us.