Finkelstein and Hedges assess the current state of the genocide in Palestine as well as how the media and the universities have all but abandoned their principles in servitude to the Zionist agenda.
It was obvious from the outset that Israel's goal in Gaza was the ethnic cleansing, and barring that, outright genocide of the Palestinian inhabitants.
October 7 was but a pretext. Yes, the United States is fully on board and is also preparing to attack Iran. No, democrats would have done no different.
Not only do I think October 7 was a pretext, but one that was planned. Why would Israel ignore warnings, 3, and three different sources? Is there a reason for their lack of presence when Hamas breached the fence, and all of Israel's intelligence and operational systems collapsed which allowed Hamas to kill at their leisure? Failure on Israel's part, or an intentional failure that gave them the excuse they needed to rid the land of Palestinians, that is implement their genocide which they have been working toward for decades. They did implement the Nakba playing on the sympathy of the holocaust.
Using the word "distracted" to describe the U.S. media infers that there is a degree of autonomy within these cohorts of the oligarchical establishment. Actually, there seems to be no autonomy whatsoever; not to mention that none of these mainstream U.S. 'news' sources have reporters embedded within ANY of these killing fields. The best they could possibly do is report what Palestinians journalists relay firsthand...which--even that--they are loathe to do.
It is also telling that Israel is happy to accept a shitload of U.S. and E.U. bombs and/or armaments in order to continue exterminating the Palestinian people, but outlaw the presence of any reporters or photo journalists whatsoever who may witness or document the atrocities of Israel's so called "war". In fact, even Al Jazeera reporters continue to be brainwashed by Israel's propaganda as they themselves are guilty of referring to the genocide as a "war" between Hamas and Israel. What is wrong with these fellow Arab neighbors (with News operations based in Qatar) that facilitate this sick charade? As Finkelstein rightly recognizes, it is not a "war" in any sense of the word. Only States or Nations go to war. So, first of all, it is a myth that Palestine exists as an independent State. It is actually run under an Israeli system of apartheid government which administers Gaza City and the West Bank as Israeli occupied territory and de facto open air prisons. All Palestinians living under the occupation of this police state are subject to indefinite administration detention by Israeli police at any time, for any reason, for an indefinite amount of time-- without any right to legal due process. In fact all Arab "citizens" of Israeli are also barred from military service to Israel; even while it is compulsory for all others Israeli citizens. Bottom line is that Israel does not recognize Palestine as an independent Nation or State. So how can they be at war with a State that does not exist? Second, think about it. Do people ever refer to Poland's "Warsaw Ghetto" territory (an open air prison largely inhabited by European Jews during WWII) as being at "*war" with Germany- despite some ghetto residents having limited success in killing their Nazi jailers/occupiers? Absolutely not. So why, then, do most folks mindlessly accept this Palestinian genocide as being labeled a "war"?
*Poland may have been at war with Germany for the month of Sept., 1939, during which they were pummeled into submission in a relatively quick and resounding defeat against the nation of Germany. For all intents and purposes there was a short lived "war" between Poland and Germany. However, the Warsaw ghetto was a subsequent phenomena that lasted for years thereafter and can be, at best, described (like the Palestinian people subsequent to the 1948 Nekba) as a resistance movement of native people against foreign
and oppressive occupiers. Who knows? Had Germany not ultimately lost WWII, perhaps Warsaw would have evolved into its own form of modern walled Gaza City which was created as a result of the first Palestinian Nekba at the hands of Israeli oppressors.
i wrote when i saw the paragliders floating into the rave and the spectacle that followed: 'now Netanyahu will get to clear his warsaw ghetto' - and sadly that is what has happened
He didn't clear it yet, and what will happen to all of these people with no country willing to take them in, and so what will they become, "nomads?" I wish they had stayed more on topic in this regard because the genocide is not over and it's aftermath has just begun.
Listening to Finkelstein and Hedges is continuing ed. I was not aware of the Goldstein Report and what Norman said about the writer retracting it - or the speculation of why he did that - " . . . he will take that reasoning to his grave." Norman Finkelstein is one I hold in very high regard as is Chris Hedges.
Norman was the first who came up on Youtube Oct 7.. 8. Thus, began my quest for the truth. I knew it was a big deal; consequently, I have found it is a VERY big deal: not just Gaza, but the whole rotten US "political" system, in league with Israel.
Norman had given up on Gaza 10 years prior. Now he was back. He's been appearing and speaking from his apartment, to the point of exhaustion. I don't think it's his age: 73ish...I think it's the knowledge that it's a lost cause. But, he continues on...
He lives in or near Coney Island, NYC. If I was back in NY, I would deliver a dinner to his door. I have a big crush on him....as do thousands of others.
Another important point is that this is not A WAR but the systematic execution of the longstanding plan to extinguish the Palestinian people completely.
"... I think they were okay. And I thought the ICJ, they did the most they could under the circumstances. So, it just wasn't enough."
THAT is what never ceases to amaze, i.e. outrage me: the insatiably greedy few oligarchs on earth have managed to silence dissent and criticism of their take- and makeover of the institutions they need to CON_tinue feeding their greed, their disdain for and indifference to the plight of all the rest of us ... still, we need to continue resisting.
[btw: i proudly out myself as one among the very few who purchased a copy of "i accuse".]
THANK YOU to both of you, norman finkelstein and chris hedges, for keeping me sane.
if i am not mistaken, noam chomsky, due to health reasons, is not in a position to give interviews these days. i miss his contributions tremendously but life takes its course, too.
The veil of impunity for genocide is a two edged sword for the bureaucrats. With Trump Trump Trump the Malaysia airline model allows Israel to go full nazi knowing western media has their back. But when eyes are on savagery in occupied Palestine, Syria, Sudan, Congo, Haiti, Yemen etc. have their barbarity bumped up for the empire. Low intensity conflicts also ramp up in those 850 other places where there are bases.
H A S B A R A A L E R T - in my inbox this morning, I received a notice that someone was following my comment thread and I could follow them too if I chose to - I always decline. When I clicked on the invitation it showed a photo of a woman in very revealing clothing - besides being totally ridiculous and sexually provocative, I knew immediately what and who is likely behind it.
How the hell can governments distort and lie about what is obvious to those (the few) who have spent time looking at this "war". It feels like the human race has slipped into a hell that will be nearly impossible to recover from.
I have heard some say there will be Nuremberg type trials for the war criminals: Israel and the USA. I'd like to know who will be holding these trials. What countries will have the strengths and the values to carry it out? China? BRICS?
Obviously, the Allies, the USA and the UK who prosecuted Germany's war crimes and crimes against humanity would then be the guilty of or indicted for those same crimes.
Crimes against the Jews are now crimes by the Jews. Some great advance of mankind, isn't it?
Julio, I'm not sure about this:"contributions from PACs and individuals giving $200 or more." I dumped $1,000 on Harris when she got crowned the nominee. Is my contribution in that $2,349,541?
I soon came to regret my support when that c**t announced that she PLEDGED!! to support Israel. Disgusting!
It should be a crime to support that rouge blood thirsty criminal sadistic hoard of neo-nazis.
But, NO, it's a crime the mention or even think that Israel may be doing something kinda wrong.
The image I get of the IDF's assaults is like some Sci-fi slimy monsters arisen from hell.
whopps...I see its "Top 20 Member Recipients of Money from Pro-Israel"
Thank you for your positivity. I would say though that the IOF are avoiding getting embroiled with the Resistance groups now by using more destructive air attacks sniper attacks and less ground invasions, according to Electrinic Intifada reports. Trump loves grabbing the headlines but it wouldn’t surprise me if this was a Zionist tactic, even the ceasefire talks Hamas/Egypt seem to be a distraction when we need this Israel regime to collapse.
It was obvious from the outset that Israel's goal in Gaza was the ethnic cleansing, and barring that, outright genocide of the Palestinian inhabitants.
October 7 was but a pretext. Yes, the United States is fully on board and is also preparing to attack Iran. No, democrats would have done no different.
Not only do I think October 7 was a pretext, but one that was planned. Why would Israel ignore warnings, 3, and three different sources? Is there a reason for their lack of presence when Hamas breached the fence, and all of Israel's intelligence and operational systems collapsed which allowed Hamas to kill at their leisure? Failure on Israel's part, or an intentional failure that gave them the excuse they needed to rid the land of Palestinians, that is implement their genocide which they have been working toward for decades. They did implement the Nakba playing on the sympathy of the holocaust.
Well said, Your Anti-Imperial Feline Majesty, well said.
Finkelstein makes a very interesting point that Israel takes its most deadly actions when the media in the US is distracted by something else.
Yes let us not lose focus, all eyes on Gaza and now all eyes on Yemen too.
... while the biggest human disaster is unfolding in sudan, with > 20 million people in need of food and shelter. what have we let the world come to?
Using the word "distracted" to describe the U.S. media infers that there is a degree of autonomy within these cohorts of the oligarchical establishment. Actually, there seems to be no autonomy whatsoever; not to mention that none of these mainstream U.S. 'news' sources have reporters embedded within ANY of these killing fields. The best they could possibly do is report what Palestinians journalists relay firsthand...which--even that--they are loathe to do.
It is also telling that Israel is happy to accept a shitload of U.S. and E.U. bombs and/or armaments in order to continue exterminating the Palestinian people, but outlaw the presence of any reporters or photo journalists whatsoever who may witness or document the atrocities of Israel's so called "war". In fact, even Al Jazeera reporters continue to be brainwashed by Israel's propaganda as they themselves are guilty of referring to the genocide as a "war" between Hamas and Israel. What is wrong with these fellow Arab neighbors (with News operations based in Qatar) that facilitate this sick charade? As Finkelstein rightly recognizes, it is not a "war" in any sense of the word. Only States or Nations go to war. So, first of all, it is a myth that Palestine exists as an independent State. It is actually run under an Israeli system of apartheid government which administers Gaza City and the West Bank as Israeli occupied territory and de facto open air prisons. All Palestinians living under the occupation of this police state are subject to indefinite administration detention by Israeli police at any time, for any reason, for an indefinite amount of time-- without any right to legal due process. In fact all Arab "citizens" of Israeli are also barred from military service to Israel; even while it is compulsory for all others Israeli citizens. Bottom line is that Israel does not recognize Palestine as an independent Nation or State. So how can they be at war with a State that does not exist? Second, think about it. Do people ever refer to Poland's "Warsaw Ghetto" territory (an open air prison largely inhabited by European Jews during WWII) as being at "*war" with Germany- despite some ghetto residents having limited success in killing their Nazi jailers/occupiers? Absolutely not. So why, then, do most folks mindlessly accept this Palestinian genocide as being labeled a "war"?
*Poland may have been at war with Germany for the month of Sept., 1939, during which they were pummeled into submission in a relatively quick and resounding defeat against the nation of Germany. For all intents and purposes there was a short lived "war" between Poland and Germany. However, the Warsaw ghetto was a subsequent phenomena that lasted for years thereafter and can be, at best, described (like the Palestinian people subsequent to the 1948 Nekba) as a resistance movement of native people against foreign
and oppressive occupiers. Who knows? Had Germany not ultimately lost WWII, perhaps Warsaw would have evolved into its own form of modern walled Gaza City which was created as a result of the first Palestinian Nekba at the hands of Israeli oppressors.
i wrote when i saw the paragliders floating into the rave and the spectacle that followed: 'now Netanyahu will get to clear his warsaw ghetto' - and sadly that is what has happened
He didn't clear it yet, and what will happen to all of these people with no country willing to take them in, and so what will they become, "nomads?" I wish they had stayed more on topic in this regard because the genocide is not over and it's aftermath has just begun.
wait until 'The Debate' begins as to how many Palestinians 'escaped through the Hamas tunnel network' and how many the zionists killed
Listening to Finkelstein and Hedges is continuing ed. I was not aware of the Goldstein Report and what Norman said about the writer retracting it - or the speculation of why he did that - " . . . he will take that reasoning to his grave." Norman Finkelstein is one I hold in very high regard as is Chris Hedges.
Norman was the first who came up on Youtube Oct 7.. 8. Thus, began my quest for the truth. I knew it was a big deal; consequently, I have found it is a VERY big deal: not just Gaza, but the whole rotten US "political" system, in league with Israel.
Norman had given up on Gaza 10 years prior. Now he was back. He's been appearing and speaking from his apartment, to the point of exhaustion. I don't think it's his age: 73ish...I think it's the knowledge that it's a lost cause. But, he continues on...
He lives in or near Coney Island, NYC. If I was back in NY, I would deliver a dinner to his door. I have a big crush on him....as do thousands of others.
Another important point is that this is not A WAR but the systematic execution of the longstanding plan to extinguish the Palestinian people completely.
EXACTLY: A War ON those people.
It is true, this is not a war, but a genocide. As Norman said, if it is described as a war, Israel wins the propaganda war.
I love Norman Finkelstein! He tells it like it is! He is my man!
"... I think they were okay. And I thought the ICJ, they did the most they could under the circumstances. So, it just wasn't enough."
THAT is what never ceases to amaze, i.e. outrage me: the insatiably greedy few oligarchs on earth have managed to silence dissent and criticism of their take- and makeover of the institutions they need to CON_tinue feeding their greed, their disdain for and indifference to the plight of all the rest of us ... still, we need to continue resisting.
[btw: i proudly out myself as one among the very few who purchased a copy of "i accuse".]
THANK YOU to both of you, norman finkelstein and chris hedges, for keeping me sane.
My two favourite thinkers on Gaza!!!! What a treat!
I appreciate this conversation so much. Knowledgeable, vivid and realistic.
Can you schedule a talk with Norm Chomsky? We need him now.
if i am not mistaken, noam chomsky, due to health reasons, is not in a position to give interviews these days. i miss his contributions tremendously but life takes its course, too.
He is in his 90s, after all... A shame he won't live forever. We need him.
Norman is 71. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Finkelstein
Noam Chomsky is 96. That's who this thread was originally about.
Great interview. Two of my very favourite knowledgeable people. Thank you.
The veil of impunity for genocide is a two edged sword for the bureaucrats. With Trump Trump Trump the Malaysia airline model allows Israel to go full nazi knowing western media has their back. But when eyes are on savagery in occupied Palestine, Syria, Sudan, Congo, Haiti, Yemen etc. have their barbarity bumped up for the empire. Low intensity conflicts also ramp up in those 850 other places where there are bases.
H A S B A R A A L E R T - in my inbox this morning, I received a notice that someone was following my comment thread and I could follow them too if I chose to - I always decline. When I clicked on the invitation it showed a photo of a woman in very revealing clothing - besides being totally ridiculous and sexually provocative, I knew immediately what and who is likely behind it.
Who?
The "thought police"?
If I hadn't already sent you this: check this guy for 100% info. on the whole mess. Plus his use of language is quite amusing. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mahmood+od
Another guy I have a big crush on.....
Hamas should get a Purple Heart and the Nobel Peace Prize.
How the hell can governments distort and lie about what is obvious to those (the few) who have spent time looking at this "war". It feels like the human race has slipped into a hell that will be nearly impossible to recover from.
I have heard some say there will be Nuremberg type trials for the war criminals: Israel and the USA. I'd like to know who will be holding these trials. What countries will have the strengths and the values to carry it out? China? BRICS?
Obviously, the Allies, the USA and the UK who prosecuted Germany's war crimes and crimes against humanity would then be the guilty of or indicted for those same crimes.
Crimes against the Jews are now crimes by the Jews. Some great advance of mankind, isn't it?
Julio, I'm not sure about this:"contributions from PACs and individuals giving $200 or more." I dumped $1,000 on Harris when she got crowned the nominee. Is my contribution in that $2,349,541?
I soon came to regret my support when that c**t announced that she PLEDGED!! to support Israel. Disgusting!
It should be a crime to support that rouge blood thirsty criminal sadistic hoard of neo-nazis.
But, NO, it's a crime the mention or even think that Israel may be doing something kinda wrong.
The image I get of the IDF's assaults is like some Sci-fi slimy monsters arisen from hell.
whopps...I see its "Top 20 Member Recipients of Money from Pro-Israel"
Thank you for your positivity. I would say though that the IOF are avoiding getting embroiled with the Resistance groups now by using more destructive air attacks sniper attacks and less ground invasions, according to Electrinic Intifada reports. Trump loves grabbing the headlines but it wouldn’t surprise me if this was a Zionist tactic, even the ceasefire talks Hamas/Egypt seem to be a distraction when we need this Israel regime to collapse.